Vladimir Putin and Russia

[scoobos 297]

19 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

 

 I don't believe things are organised to the extent you suggest.

I'm not saying it's organised as such, I dont think much is. But I do think that there's an "accepted way" of running a business / corporation and the push against anti competition laws ; together with the type of buying your talking about, leads to more money going to fund politicians and therefore more pressure to work for the economy. 

Once something "works" for one company, everyone follows suit and it becomes acceptable. 

No way could Unilever (im not picking on them in particular) have the number of subsidiary companies and purchases, under 1980s competition laws.

But yeah, hearing about P&G is perhaps regional, I meant globally - there's a definite movement in my field with the youngest professionals, anyway.

 

[Isegrim 8873]

 

[Toonpack 6867]

Following several busloads of Russian soldiers having radiation sickness after digging trenches around Chernobyl 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Toonpack

[Renton 17817]

Quite surprised at this. Not that the Russians are ignorant of Chernobyl (although I find that quite alarming and shows the failures of the soviet empire are well and truly censored), but that any have contracted acute radiation sickness after this time. The only place that should occur is in the core itself, under the sarcophagus. Before the war there were tyourist trips to Chernobyl and Pripyat. 

[Toonpack 6867]

14 minutes ago, Renton said:

Quite surprised at this. Not that the Russians are ignorant of Chernobyl (although I find that quite alarming and shows the failures of the soviet empire are well and truly censored), but that any have contracted acute radiation sickness after this time. The only place that should occur is in the core itself, under the sarcophagus. Before the war there were tyourist trips to Chernobyl and Pripyat. 

 

They've been digging trenches and "camping" in the red forest, where everything died, one of the most contaminated places on earth.

From Wiki:

 

The Red Forest is located in the zone of alienation; this area received the highest doses of radiation from the Chernobyl accident and the resulting clouds of smoke and dust, heavily polluted with radioactive contamination. The trees died from this radiation. The explosion and fire at the Chernobyl No. 4 reactor contaminated the soil, water and atmosphere with radioactive material equivalent to that of 20 times the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

[Renton 17817]

But Hiroshima and Nagasaki were never even abandoned. It's a meaningless comparison anyway - airburst atom bombs vs nuclear reactor meltdown. From a medical perspective though , I know from research work it takes a huge dose of radiation in a short time to precipitate acute radiation sickness (although  less so other longer-term conditions). If digging in dirt can actually do this, the whole area should have been an exclusion zone, but it wasn't. I'm a bit sceptical of this particular news item personally.

[Toonpack 6867]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

But Hiroshima and Nagasaki were never even abandoned. It's a meaningless comparison anyway - airburst atom bombs vs nuclear reactor meltdown. From a medical perspective though , I know from research work it takes a huge dose of radiation in a short time to precipitate acute radiation sickness (although  less so other longer-term conditions). If digging in dirt can actually do this, the whole area should have been an exclusion zone, but it wasn't. I'm a bit sceptical of this particular news item personally.

 

Any visitors are there for a few hours and all have gieger counters to make sure they limit exposure, the red forest was bulldozed and buried and these soldiers have been digging into it and living/sleeping in it for weeks. I can well believe the story tbh.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/military-action-in-chernobyl-could-be-dangerous-for-people-and-the-environment/#:~:text=The Chernobyl exclusion zone is,levels by thousands of times.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Toonpack

[Isegrim 8873]

 

[ohhh_yeah 2783]

 

 

 

[ohhh_yeah 2783]

 

 

 

[ohhh_yeah 2783]

 

 

 

[Toonpack 6867]

Thread

 

[Tom 13870]

Harrowing stuff. 

 

[Rayvin 4964]

The guy who wrote that is an academic in Russia, so it's not necessarily intended to be anything more than propaganda for domestic consumption; the Russian state itself cannot be that far gone, surely.

[Tom 13870]

I hope not but judging by the actions of the soldiers I’m not so sure.

[PaddockLad 14616]

It’s interesting that none of us have mentioned the UN’s role & reaction to the conflict, possibly because it’s a superannuated bullshit shop that’s pretty much never done anything to prevent any war since it’s formation . Yesterday Zelenskiy called them out on this, basically told them that if they can’t expel Russia from the security council where it’s currently using it’s veto as a permanent member to prevent any sanctions being taken against the war they themselves are prosecuting they might as well pack up and fuck off because they’re as much use as a fuckin chocolate teapot. He then asked them to watch the video in the following Twitter link, don’t click on it if you’re squeamish or at work though….

 

EXPLICIT CONTENT, DONT CLICK ON THIS AT WORK OR IF YOURE SQUEAMISH 

https://twitter.com/innasovsun/status/1511386420329553925?s=21&t=pvQW9_5j617l-Uqdzsb2Lw

 

 

[Renton 17817]

53 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

It’s interesting that none of us have mentioned the UN’s role & reaction to the conflict, possibly because it’s a superannuated bullshit shop that’s pretty much never done anything to prevent any war since it’s formation . Yesterday Zelenskiy called them out on this, basically told them that if they can’t expel Russia from the security council where it’s currently using it’s veto as a permanent member to prevent any sanctions being taken against the war they themselves are prosecuting they might as well pack up and fuck off because they’re as much use as a fuckin chocolate teapot. He then asked them to watch the video in the following Twitter link, don’t click on it if you’re squeamish or at work though….

 

EXPLICIT CONTENT, DONT CLICK ON THIS AT WORK OR IF YOURE SQUEAMISH 

https://twitter.com/innasovsun/status/1511386420329553925?s=21&t=pvQW9_5j617l-Uqdzsb2Lw

 

 

 

I don't think this is true really (underlined bit). The UN has been quite successful in peacekeeping operations in smaller conflicts. Some more successful than others. There's the list below. Problem is one of the permanent members has gone rogue, its unprecedented, and nobody knows what to do or if anything is possible within the current framework. Yeah, we could scrap it but that strikes me as throwing the baby out with the bath water. And that is exactly what the authoritarian leaders want so they are free to establish their rule unchallenged in the future. All the international structures intended to keep peace and/or stability have been under attack in recent years by the usual suspects. I appreciate Zelinskiy's point about the UN being toothless but I'm not hearing what he wants to replace it.

 

Quote

Africa

United Nations Angola Verification Mission I (UNAVEM I)

United Nations Angola Verification Mission II (UNAVEM II)

United Nations Angola Verification Mission III (UNAVEM III)

United Nations Aouzou Strip Observer Group (UNASOG)

United Nations Assistance Mission for Rwanda (UNAMIR)

United Nations Mission in Côte d'Ivoire (MINUCI)

United Nations Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea (UNMEE)

United Nations Mission in Sierra Leone (UNAMSIL)

United Nations Mission in the Central African Republic (MINURCA)

United Nations Mission in the Central African Republic and Chad (MINURCAT)

United Nations Observer Mission in Angola (MONUA)

United Nations Observer Mission in Liberia (UNOMIL)

United Nations Observer Mission in Sierra Leone (UNOMSIL)

United Nations Observer Mission Uganda-Rwanda (UNOMUR)

United Nations Operation in Burundi (ONUB)

United Nations Operations in Côte d'Ivoire (UNOCI)

United Nations Operation in Mozambique (ONUMOZ)

United Nations Operation in Somalia I (UNOSOM I)

United Nations Operation in Somalia II (UNOSOM II)

UN Mission in the Sudan (UNMIS)

United Nations Operation in the Congo (ONUC)

United Nations Organization Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (MONUC)

United Nations Transition Assistance Group (UNTAG)

Americas

Mission of the Representative of the Secretary-General in the Dominican Republic (DOMREP)

United Nations Civilian Police Mission in Haiti (MIPONUH)

United Nations Mission in Haiti (UNMIH)

United Nations Observer Group in Central America (ONUCA)

United Nations Observer Mission in El Salvador (ONUSAL)

United Nations Support Mission in Haiti (UNSMIH)

United Nations Transition Mission in Haiti (UNTMIH)

United Nations Verification Mission in Guatemala (MINUGUA)

Asia and the Pacific

United Nations Advance Mission in Cambodia (UNAMIC)

United Nations Good Offices Mission in Afghanistan and Pakistan (UNGOMAP)

United Nations India-Pakistan Observation Mission (UNIPOM)

United Nations Mission of Observers in Tajikistan (UNMOT)

United Nations Mission of Support in East Timor (UNMISET)

United Nations Security Force in West New Guinea (UNSF)

United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET)

United Nations Transitional Authority in Cambodia (UNTAC)

UN Integrated Mission in Timor-Leste (UNMIT)

Europe

United Nations Civilian Police Support Group (UNPSG)

United Nations Confidence Restoration Operation in Croatia (UNCRO)

United Nations Mission in Bosnia and Herzegovina (UNMIBH)

United Nations Mission of Observers in Prevlaka (UNMOP)

United Nations Observer Mission in Georgia (UNOMIG)

United Nations Preventive Deployment Force (UNPREDEP)

United Nations Protection Force (UNPROFOR)

United Nations Transitional Administration for Eastern Slavonia, Baranja and Western Sirmium (UNTAES)

Middle East

United Nations Emergency Force I (UNEF I)

United Nations Emergency Force II (UNEF II)

United Nations Iran-Iraq Military Observer Group (UNIIMOG)

United Nations Iraq-Kuwait Observation Mission (UNIKOM)

United Nations Observation Group in Lebanon (UNOGIL)

United Nations Yemen Observation Mission (UNYOM)

UN Supervision Mission in Syria (UNSMIS)

https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/list-of-past-peacekeeping-operations

 

[NJS 3982]

Unprecedented? How many times has the US acted without a UN mandate? 

 

Doesn't make the Russians any less cunts but add in all the times the US has used its veto to save Israel's neck, I think I know who takes the piss out of the UN more. 

[Alex 30443]

I think it’s true of our colonial past too. I don’t mean you can look at that and say it’s justifies in anyway the horrific atrocities being carried out by Russia. But it gives India and China (for example) massive scope to say ‘fuck you’ to a country like the UK suggesting they should boycott Russian oil, gas, whatever. I’m sure Arab nations question why the Ukraine is more important than Syria too. I really feel the UN should do something here because the stories and images etc are truly horrifying. But the actions of the past do leave the US and the UK open to accusations of hypocrisy and double standards. 

[Rayvin 4964]

I agree with Renton on this, the last thing we need is another vehicle of internationalism smashed to bits. If we throw Russia out it would be the end of the UN unless we actually fully dissolved the security Council at the same time. Which I'm actually not opposed to.

 

But yes, it is useless other than apparently working as a theatre in the same way parliament does for PMQs. If it breaks down though, we will end up with a new cold War for real, as the Western nations band together and everyone else cements alliances in separate blocs. Which would be fine (maybe) except we need collective strategy to succeed with things like climate change.

 

We have to continue working within the framework we have even as Putin is executing civilians in the street. I'd sooner send troops in than kick Russia out of the SC, personally.

[Renton 17817]

1 hour ago, NJS said:

Unprecedented? How many times has the US acted without a UN mandate? 

 

Doesn't make the Russians any less cunts but add in all the times the US has used its veto to save Israel's neck, I think I know who takes the piss out of the UN more. 

 

Okay, not unprecedented, in particular Iraq 2 comes to mind here, although if memory serves none of the permanent members actually directly opposed this war, might be wrong here. This is the only full scale invasion I can recall without UN backing. But there's never been a situation like this has there? The Russians causing deliberate civilian massacres and brazenly lying about it in New York, even blaming the Ukrainians. Also don't forget Russian atrocities in Georgia, Chechyna. and Syria. Forget about who takes the piss out of the UN more, let's reflect who takes the piss more on human life maybe. I just don't buy this insinuation of equivalence (but fully agree on Alex's points). 

So yeah, scrap the UN then, and lets effectively have no international consensus on military aggression? What then? 

[Alex 30443]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

I agree with Renton on this, the last thing we need is another vehicle of internationalism smashed to bits. If we throw Russia out it would be the end of the UN unless we actually fully dissolved the security Council at the same time. Which I'm actually not opposed to.

 

But yes, it is useless other than apparently working as a theatre in the same way parliament does for PMQs. If it breaks down though, we will end up with a new cold War for real, as the Western nations band together and everyone else cements alliances in separate blocs. Which would be fine (maybe) except we need collective strategy to succeed with things like climate change.

 

We have to continue working within the framework we have even as Putin is executing civilians in the street. I'd sooner send troops in than kick Russia out of the SC, personally.

I agree with both of you re: the UN fwiw. It’s not perfect but it’s definitely better than the vacuum it would leave behind 

[Tom 13870]

 

 

 

 

 

[Craig 6307]

3 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meow!

 

[Rayvin 4964]

5 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's probably wrong, it's probably not a good thing for the discourse, but it's fucking funny.