Dr Gloom 19828 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I feel like we've been down this road before. Aye, and we all know what the answer is. This is the owner who brought joe kinnear in. .... twice, hired mcclaren no one else would and thought gambling the club's top flight status with half a season of carver in charge was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Aye, and we all know what the answer is. This is the owner who brought joe kinnear in. .... twice, hired mcclaren no one else would and thought gambling the club's top flight status with half a season of carver in charge was a good idea. Not forgetting that he sacked Chris Hughton in favour of Pardew...who at the time was an out of work manager sacked from his last job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 The club turned a profit with McClaren in charge. We don't spend more than we generate. Same for every manager. McClaren didn't get to choose his signings or who was sold. Same as every manager. He wasn't backed particularly. The self financing model started generating bigger budgets and he was the first to really benefit from that. Rafa will get a reasonable spend too. He just won't get carte Blanche to spend it where he wants. Ashley's approach has been entirely consistent from the day he sacked Allardyce. Nah it was pretty well reported that Rafa was taking the job on a full control basis. Ashley isn't going to throw the club into jeopardy this summer. There wouldn't be any benefit in doing it. It'd be a gamble for little reward because he knows he needs to spend whatever happens. So why would he shaft Rafa, need to find a new manager and turn supporters against the club? Irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Nah it was pretty well reported that Rafa was taking the job on a full control basis. Ashley isn't going to throw the club into jeopardy this summer. There wouldn't be any benefit in doing it. It'd be a gamble for little reward because he knows he needs to spend whatever happens. So why would he shaft Rafa, need to find a new manager and turn supporters against the club? Irrational. Exactly the same as the Keegan situation in every regard then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Aye! And look how that season turned out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19828 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Is he stupid enough or enough of a cunt to do that again? We all know the answer to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Did it with Keegan, repeated it with Hughton, and again by sticking with Carver rather than replace him. McClaren sacking was the first sign that he might possibly have grasped the concept of taking short term costs on the chin to pursue long term gains. The fact it failed has probably put him off doing that again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I don't think Hughton or Carver were ever told that they had control of transfers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3206 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I don't think Hughton or Carver were ever told that they had control of transfers I wouldn't give Carver control of the bog brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Aye, don't think we can criticise them for that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 The call being criticised is appointing Carver at all, rather than appoint anyone competent. This horrified fans and risked relegation. Ashley had seen how Keegan's season turned out before he allowed that. he didn't learn any lesson. Rafa will not get any more than the club can afford (like any previous manager) and he'll not get carte blanche to spend what he wants from the budget where he wants (like previous managers). He might have more input on identifying targets but that's as far as it goes, from that point he's reliant on Ashley, Charnley and Moncur wheeling and dealing for the best price... and walking away from deals they don't see as value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 You're talking shit man. There's absolutely no way that it won't have been made 100% clear who pulls the strings on transfers when the club and Benitez were in negotiations for him to stay. Rafa held all the aces in those discussions and I'd be shocked if it wasn't put into writing for him. Your summer scenario would likely be constructive dismissal #2. How much would that cost? He won't be on Pardew or Hughton wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9004 Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 The call being criticised is appointing Carver at all, rather than appoint anyone competent. This horrified fans and risked relegation. Ashley had seen how Keegan's season turned out before he allowed that. he didn't learn any lesson. Rafa will not get any more than the club can afford (like any previous manager) and he'll not get carte blanche to spend what he wants from the budget where he wants (like previous managers). He might have more input on identifying targets but that's as far as it goes, from that point he's reliant on Ashley, Charnley and Moncur wheeling and dealing for the best price... and walking away from deals they don't see as value. The hope is that this part of the structure will see us signing more players for positions that are weak, instead of another player for an already strong* position. He clearly identified fullback and centre back as areas of concern that he wanted addressed in the summer, that's why we signed 3 fullbacks and 2 centre halves. Paying for older players, for English players, which is not something we've been keen to do under Ashley. *comparatively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 The thing is we haven't had a manager comparable to Keegan until Rafa came along. We now have a top class manager respected by the players & loved by the fans. I just hope Ashley & co haven't caused irrepairable damage in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 If they were willing to derail the promotion push by failing to deliver a single one of the targets Rafa identified in january, I find it incredible anyone would think that it's inconceivable that the same pattern will emerge in future windows, when Premier league income is already secured. Get rafa off the wage bill, get Davy Jones in for the relegation battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 If they were willing to derail the promotion push by failing to deliver a single one of the targets Rafa identified in january, I find it incredible anyone would think that it's inconceivable that the same pattern will emerge in future windows, when Premier league income is already secured. Get rafa off the wage bill, get Davy Jones in for the relegation battles. Get Rafa off the wage bill how? They'll have to pay him off either way. We don't know exactly what happened in January but I wouldn't be shocked if Fat Sam tried to exploit the position the club were in, i.e buy Townsend on his terms or risk Rafa's wrath. Premier League income is important to the club so why would they risk downgrading the manager? I can sympathise with your position of expecting the worst from Ashley but this one makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9004 Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 If they were willing to derail the promotion push by failing to deliver a single one of the targets Rafa identified in january, I find it incredible anyone would think that it's inconceivable that the same pattern will emerge in future windows, when Premier league income is already secured. Get rafa off the wage bill, get Davy Jones in for the relegation battles. I can understand not wanting to spend £22m on Tom Cairney, and perhaps the Townsend deal wasn't as close as we were lead to believe? I think Benitez will be backed in the window. Mostly because Ashley seems perfectly happy to spend in the summer window. My biggest concern is Benitez identifying a need to spend in January and not being allowed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Get Rafa off the wage bill how? They'll have to pay him off either way. We don't know exactly what happened in January but I wouldn't be shocked if Fat Sam tried to exploit the position the club were in, i.e buy Townsend on his terms or risk Rafa's wrath. Premier League income is important to the club so why would they risk downgrading the manager? I can sympathise with your position of expecting the worst from Ashley but this one makes no sense. Get another daft lad in charge like Pardew, Carver, or McClaren grateful for the job. On low wages wont have a word said against Ashley "fanks Mike" hated by the fans takes all the flack away from Ashley. Won't question what he's told regarding transfers. Ashley's all but back were he wants to be Benitez has served his purpose. I'm prepared to see Benitez leave unfortunatley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) Get another daft lad in charge like Pardew, Carver, or McClaren grateful for the job. On low wages wont have a word said against Ashley "fanks Mike" hated by the fans takes all the flack away from Ashley. Won't question what he's told regarding transfers. Ashley's all but back were he wants to be Benitez has served his purpose. I'm prepared to see Benitez leave unfortunatley. You think replacing Rafa with another yes man will take the flack away from Ashley? there would be fucking hell on man. Why would he want a worse manager ffs. Ridiculous. If anything he's getting less stick now than ever. Even after relegation he didn't get much Edited April 24, 2017 by TheGingerQuiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 How much are crowds up this season compared to our last championship stint? Rafa being here probably pays for itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6186 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Realistically we should have known our summer premier league targets before January, and there should be plenty of them. Rafa didn't mess about bringing players in for the championship my hope is that it will be similar this time with an obvious pedigree increase in the players. At the same time there is a number of players we should be offloading that should find ready homes in the championship. If we can recruit well, focussing on the positions that we need to strengthen then we should be able to cope with a marginally smaller squad given the reduction in games in the premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6186 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 How much are crowds up this season compared to our last championship stint? Rafa being here probably pays for itself He probably sees Rafa as the pair of Nikes you keep around to draw people into the store to sell them multiple pairs of Slazenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26426 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I can understand not wanting to spend £22m on Tom Cairney, and perhaps the Townsend deal wasn't as close as we were lead to believe? I think Benitez will be backed in the window. Mostly because Ashley seems perfectly happy to spend in the summer window. My biggest concern is Benitez identifying a need to spend in January and not being allowed to. My fag packet accounting has us set to make a loss of up to £5m this season. I can only guess that Charnley did not want to increase that loss and it was also unlikely that the cash was there to do our usual method of paying up front for transfers. Hence the fact that we only made a loan offer for Townsend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6186 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 My fag packet accounting has us set to make a loss of up to £5m this season. I can only guess that Charnley did not want to increase that loss and it was also unlikely that the cash was there to do our usual method of paying up front for transfers. Hence the fact that we only made a loan offer for Townsend. A loss of £5m on a relegated season in the championship is the dream lining of a nightmare. Aren't many premier league sides losing more than this a season? I doubt it will be that minimal a loss even accounting for the player sales but I'd imagine the numbers we eventually get will be coloured to the clubs agenda and advantage anyway. So you might as well just continue thinking you knwo what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26426 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) Basically we're losing out on £72m in TV/prize money but we're making up for that with a £40m parachute payment. Add in a couple of million that we'll receive in TV money this year and the £30m transfer surplus and that has us breaking even. But we'll probably be down money in sponsorship/corporate payments so that's why I've predicted a £5m loss. Edited April 24, 2017 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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