Newcastle United vs Nottingham Forest

[Renton 17782]

24 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Can I come? 😀

 

In all seriousness, I'd love to meet up with you mate. And Alex, let's do that walk in summer. 👍

[ackas 304]

This season has strong echoes of 94-95. 
Triumphant return to Europe after a long absence, which fizzled out tamely. 
A dip in league form after a reasonably strong start, while expectations were high after a great performance in the previous season. 
We sold and bought well that year and challenged for the title next time out. 

There are questions for Eddie to deal with now and ultimately we’ll find out how good he is. 

[PaddockLad 14585]

18 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

In all seriousness, I'd love to meet up with you mate. And Alex, let's do that walk in summer. 👍

Yeah yeah I’ll come  as long as we’re torturing Gemmill am there ☺️

[strawb 3659]

5 hours ago, Holden McGroin said:

what happens if we finish 12th? 

What happens if we finish 4th? 
 

We are 7th so closer to 4th than 12th

[Isegrim 8870]

We have been playing against clubs fighting for survival recently and lost. Obviously we should have beaten those teams on paper, but that’s not how football does work. We faced teams who had nothing to lose who took their opportunities and made their best of us not being sg our best mentality and physically.

 

I really can’t get my head around how a fair number of fans act like spoilt brats after a couple of disappointing results and the first serious spell of bad results for nearly two years. The hypocrisy of some of them is hilarious. They are no better than fans from other ”top“ clubs who do feel entitled to win against “small teams“.

[RobinRobin 9229]

Some wise words here (and some bollocks). My own view is that Howe made some mistakes but he has more than enough credit in the bank. 

Clearly Burn shouldn't have played (he's been found out now) but once he did, he should've been replaced on a tactical basis when it was clear what was happening. Or we shouldn't have played such a high line. 

Allowing Wood to run in behind not just once but three times was negligent. 

Happy fucking Christmas 🙁 

[sammynb 2929]

Not that anyone gives a fuck about my opinion but here it is anyway (and no I'm not calling for Howe to be sacked, just an observation of what is currently wrong).

I think wor Eddie has been found out for being all one plan, run run run - I said this last match thread. Tactically he's been had by a lot of teams that play counter attacking football against us, tired legs or not.

A lot of the same lot here who were calling for Wood to be sacked off last season are the same lot crying loudest about Miggy. If you look at the way both Wilson and Isak have been asked to play this season, they look remarkably similar to kiwi Chris did when he was the only option we had available, isolated, lacking service and asked to chase everything like a greyhound, two games under a tactically astute manager (which Cooper wasn't) and he's scored four and made another one - clearly he's not the donkey some were making him out to be.

As others have said we've bought all these fit, run around a lot players and the ones we had that were not good enough have been turned into that sort of players as well but we have no one that can change a game - Bruno can unlock a defence but marking him out like Gibbs-White did today and the attack is smothered.

With a fully fit squad, the team will beat most just a sheer fitness alone but it's not enough to move to that next level.

Edited December 27, 2023 by sammynb

[aimaad22 3471]

2 hours ago, sammynb said:

Not that anyone gives a fuck about my opinion but here it is anyway (and no I'm not calling for Howe to be sacked, just an observation of what is currently wrong).

I think wor Eddie has been found out for being all one plan, run run run - I said this last match thread. Tactically he's been had by a lot of teams that play counter attacking football against us, tired legs or not.

A lot of the same lot here who were calling for Wood to be sacked off last season are the same lot crying loudest about Miggy. If you look at the way both Wilson and Isak have been asked to play this season, they look remarkably similar to kiwi Chris did when he was the only option we had available, isolated, lacking service and asked to chase everything like a greyhound, two games under a tactically astute manager (which Cooper wasn't) and he's scored four and made another one - clearly he's not the donkey some were making him out to be.

As others have said we've bought all these fit, run around a lot players and the ones we had that were not good enough have been turned into that sort of players as well but we have no one that can change a game - Bruno can unlock a defence but marking him out like Gibbs-White did today and the attack is smothered.

With a fully fit squad, the team will beat most just a sheer fitness alone but it's not enough to move to that next level.

 

It worked. Running and intensity was the best way of getting this group of players to perform and in fact punch above their weight. 

 

Evolving the team is something you've got to do in the process of becoming a top manager. This is Eddie's next test. People said his teams couldn't defend when he arrived here. He proved them wrong. I hope he can keep doing it. 

[RobinRobin 9229]

46 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

 

It worked. Running and intensity was the best way of getting this group of players to perform and in fact punch above their weight. 

 

Evolving the team is something you've got to do in the process of becoming a top manager. This is Eddie's next test. People said his teams couldn't defend when he arrived here. He proved them wrong. I hope he can keep doing it. 

Running and intensity was part of the defensive strategy as well, which they currently can't do for reasons mentioned, so his test will be to find an alternative until we get some fit cattle back not just for the first 11 but amongst the subs as well. 

[OTF 6148]

3 hours ago, sammynb said:

Not that anyone gives a fuck about my opinion but here it is anyway (and no I'm not calling for Howe to be sacked, just an observation of what is currently wrong).

I think wor Eddie has been found out for being all one plan, run run run - I said this last match thread. Tactically he's been had by a lot of teams that play counter attacking football against us, tired legs or not.

A lot of the same lot here who were calling for Wood to be sacked off last season are the same lot crying loudest about Miggy. If you look at the way both Wilson and Isak have been asked to play this season, they look remarkably similar to kiwi Chris did when he was the only option we had available, isolated, lacking service and asked to chase everything like a greyhound, two games under a tactically astute manager (which Cooper wasn't) and he's scored four and made another one - clearly he's not the donkey some were making him out to be.

As others have said we've bought all these fit, run around a lot players and the ones we had that were not good enough have been turned into that sort of players as well but we have no one that can change a game - Bruno can unlock a defence but marking him out like Gibbs-White did today and the attack is smothered.

With a fully fit squad, the team will beat most just a sheer fitness alone but it's not enough to move to that next level.

 

Some good observations. With Bruno man marked we were painfully impotent in trying to set up attacks resulting in us forcing the issue with hopeful balls and turning it over with our midfield out of position. This is how we conceded the goals against a faster team. Really, with better defense those goals should not have been scored but we exposed our defenders in the worst way possible by giving Forest so much space. Gordon and Almiron had terrible games and contributed little in attack and even less in defense, Trippier played way too high and Burn constantly gave his man too much space.

 

For me if Joelinton comes back into the midfield replacing Longstaff and Livramento plays instead of Burn we should be more resilient. This has to be with much better positioning across the board also.

 

Dubravka has made some reasonable saves in the last few games, but it generally feels like a minor miracle every time he makes a save or gloves a corner. Our defense as a whole just looks so shaky. Trippier can't make a tackle, Burn is too far away to make one and Botman and Schär have not re-established their impressive partnership.

 

I don't know what can be done about Miggy and Gordon because we painfully just don't have options currently. Willock, Barnes and Murphy all have no fixed return dates and Eliot Anderson even more so (chronic back issues at that age and height are really not good).

[Holden McGroin 4855]

9 hours ago, strawb said:

What happens if we finish 4th? 
 

We are 7th so closer to 4th than 12th

4th would be amazing but I’m talking about expectations. 9-12th is way under that.

[PaddockLad 14585]

4 hours ago, sammynb said:

Not that anyone gives a fuck about my opinion but here it is anyway (and no I'm not calling for Howe to be sacked, just an observation of what is currently wrong).

I think wor Eddie has been found out for being all one plan, run run run - I said this last match thread. Tactically he's been had by a lot of teams that play counter attacking football against us, tired legs or not.

A lot of the same lot here who were calling for Wood to be sacked off last season are the same lot crying loudest about Miggy. If you look at the way both Wilson and Isak have been asked to play this season, they look remarkably similar to kiwi Chris did when he was the only option we had available, isolated, lacking service and asked to chase everything like a greyhound, two games under a tactically astute manager (which Cooper wasn't) and he's scored four and made another one - clearly he's not the donkey some were making him out to be.

As others have said we've bought all these fit, run around a lot players and the ones we had that were not good enough have been turned into that sort of players as well but we have no one that can change a game - Bruno can unlock a defence but marking him out like Gibbs-White did today and the attack is smothered.

With a fully fit squad, the team will beat most just a sheer fitness alone but it's not enough to move to that next level.

 

Brilliant point about Wood, Wilson and Isak and the fuckwits among our suppprt Sammy  

[Holden McGroin 4855]

9 hours ago, Isegrim said:

We have been playing against clubs fighting for survival recently and lost. Obviously we should have beaten those teams on paper, but that’s not how football does work. We faced teams who had nothing to lose who took their opportunities and made their best of us not being sg our best mentality and physically.

 

I really can’t get my head around how a fair number of fans act like spoilt brats after a couple of disappointing results and the first serious spell of bad results for nearly two years. The hypocrisy of some of them is hilarious. They are no better than fans from other ”top“ clubs who do feel entitled to win against “small teams“.

Aye. I agree with all that. 
 

What I would say is though our performances of late have been terrible and we’ve got exactly what we deserved. It’s not like we are playing well and luck is going against us. 
 

 

[sammynb 2929]

1 hour ago, aimaad22 said:

 

It worked. Running and intensity was the best way of getting this group of players to perform and in fact punch above their weight. 

 

Evolving the team is something you've got to do in the process of becoming a top manager. This is Eddie's next test. People said his teams couldn't defend when he arrived here. He proved them wrong. I hope he can keep doing it. 

 

Yes it worked last season for a number of reasons, one being oppositions for some reason didn't realise they were a high intensity/pressing teams - pundits and opposition fans kept saying we were defended deep like we did under cabbagehead. Emery realised this wasn't the case and hence why they skinned us in their beige stadium. This season opposition teams and fans have caught up and tactically know how to play against us, add in the fact the team has run out of legs and Eddie's still trying to beat the dead horse to get more out of them, if you can't see that's a problem, you are clearly not watching.

 

50 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

Running and intensity was part of the defensive strategy as well, which they currently can't do for reasons mentioned, so his test will be to find an alternative until we get some fit cattle back not just for the first 11 but amongst the subs as well. 

 

This. One of the best defences in the league last season, has shipped 11 goeals in the last 5 matches. Something has to change to stop the rot. They cannot be "hoping" on returning players because that's not a guarantee.

[PaddockLad 14585]

This hits the core problem with our injuries  and reintroduction squarely on the head 

 

 

[ewerk 26347]

19 hours ago, ewerk said:

 

Have you seen Chris Wood play football? Elanga clearly has.

[Andrew 4220]

25 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

This hits the core problem with our injuries  and reintroduction squarely on the head 

 

 

 

Its a very similar trajectory to Klopps start at Liverpool, he came in with his incredibly high intensity pressing game and then had to adapt his squad and his tactics to be able to run games more efficiently without running them into the ground.

Interestingly (?) Howe is still two years younger than Klopp was when he joined Liverpool, both started managing quite young in their early 30s.

Fingers crossed the parallels continue and Eddie can evolve us as Klopp did Liverpool.

 

[sammynb 2929]

3 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Fingers crossed the parallels continue and Eddie can evolve us as Klopp did Liverpool.
 

 

Knowing our luck, he'll just get the teeth and turn into a cunt, without the success!

[PaddockLad 14585]

4 minutes ago, Andrew said:

 

Its a very similar trajectory to Klopps start at Liverpool, he came in with his incredibly high intensity pressing game and then had to adapt his squad and his tactics to be able to run games more efficiently without running them into the ground.

Interestingly (?) Howe is still two years younger than Klopp was when he joined Liverpool, both started managing quite young in their early 30s.

Fingers crossed the parallels continue and Eddie can evolve us as Klopp did Liverpool.

 

There was some analysis earlier this season that said we’ve been playing precisely the same way as Liverpool did when Klopp first went there  

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

We can transition to a less intense possession based game but there are players in the team still who despite their other qualities give the ball away too much, Miggy and Longy being the two main culprits. Although Trippier seems to have seen this as a challenge recently.

[The Fish 8989]

That tweet is right, imo. The style we play is predicated on supreme levels of fitness, when a couple of players miss a few games, that's manageable, but when 10+ players are missing for significant periods the toll it takes on the remaining squad is massive. That load has to be lightened, either with new players, or changing the system. You needn't start entirely fresh, but small changes here and there can have a big difference. e.g. beginning with more of a 4-2-3-1 instead of a 4-1-2-3 leaves you shorter up top, but a lot more defensively sound. Playing Bruno further forward with Longstaff and Miley operating deeper would reduce the load on the fullbacks and centrebacks, you would play deeper leaving less of a gap between CB and goalkeeper, which when you haven't a goal keeper able to play the sweeper keeper role would mean you're less susceptible to counter attacks. 

 

You can still play a pressing game, but use different triggers, instead of pressing the fullbacks when they receive the ball from the 'keeper, press when the defensive mid is receiving the ball, shut down passing options through the centre and to the wings. Yes, you likely still need to get past the CBs but at least your whole team isn't stretched as it is normally. Return to the dark arts more, break up the game and if you're criticised for time wasting, so be it. Make subs. No, Dummet and Ritchie and Hall aren't ready to start in the PL, but they can sure as shit be used to break up opposition momentum with a tactical sub and their fresh legs will cause as many problems for the opponents, as they will reduce problems for Newcastle's tiring legs.

 

A few more players bought, a few players back and I still think we've enough to challenge for Europe.

[Holden McGroin 4855]

7 minutes ago, The Fish said:

That tweet is right, imo. The style we play is predicated on supreme levels of fitness, when a couple of players miss a few games, that's manageable, but when 10+ players are missing for significant periods the toll it takes on the remaining squad is massive. That load has to be lightened, either with new players, or changing the system. You needn't start entirely fresh, but small changes here and there can have a big difference. e.g. beginning with more of a 4-2-3-1 instead of a 4-1-2-3 leaves you shorter up top, but a lot more defensively sound. Playing Bruno further forward with Longstaff and Miley operating deeper would reduce the load on the fullbacks and centrebacks, you would play deeper leaving less of a gap between CB and goalkeeper, which when you haven't a goal keeper able to play the sweeper keeper role would mean you're less susceptible to counter attacks. 

 

You can still play a pressing game, but use different triggers, instead of pressing the fullbacks when they receive the ball from the 'keeper, press when the defensive mid is receiving the ball, shut down passing options through the centre and to the wings. Yes, you likely still need to get past the CBs but at least your whole team isn't stretched as it is normally. Return to the dark arts more, break up the game and if you're criticised for time wasting, so be it. Make subs. No, Dummet and Ritchie and Hall aren't ready to start in the PL, but they can sure as shit be used to break up opposition momentum with a tactical sub and their fresh legs will cause as many problems for the opponents, as they will reduce problems for Newcastle's tiring legs.

 

A few more players bought, a few players back and I still think we've enough to challenge for Europe.

Good analysis Fish. That’s pretty much where I am as well. 

[Holden McGroin 4855]

13 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

We can transition to a less intense possession based game but there are players in the team still who despite their other qualities give the ball away too much, Miggy and Longy being the two main culprits. Although Trippier seems to have seen this as a challenge recently.

Yeah. Spot on.  Burn as well. 

Gordon is also a pressure and rush kind of player which is perfect for Howes  current system. He has age on his side to improve technically though. 
 

I worry about Trippier going off the boil so dramatically at his age. I’d still play him if he had one leg though. He has been amazing for this club.

[ackas 304]

10 minutes ago, The Fish said:

That tweet is right, imo. The style we play is predicated on supreme levels of fitness, when a couple of players miss a few games, that's manageable, but when 10+ players are missing for significant periods the toll it takes on the remaining squad is massive. That load has to be lightened, either with new players, or changing the system. You needn't start entirely fresh, but small changes here and there can have a big difference. e.g. beginning with more of a 4-2-3-1 instead of a 4-1-2-3 leaves you shorter up top, but a lot more defensively sound. Playing Bruno further forward with Longstaff and Miley operating deeper would reduce the load on the fullbacks and centrebacks, you would play deeper leaving less of a gap between CB and goalkeeper, which when you haven't a goal keeper able to play the sweeper keeper role would mean you're less susceptible to counter attacks. 

 

You can still play a pressing game, but use different triggers, instead of pressing the fullbacks when they receive the ball from the 'keeper, press when the defensive mid is receiving the ball, shut down passing options through the centre and to the wings. Yes, you likely still need to get past the CBs but at least your whole team isn't stretched as it is normally. Return to the dark arts more, break up the game and if you're criticised for time wasting, so be it. Make subs. No, Dummet and Ritchie and Hall aren't ready to start in the PL, but they can sure as shit be used to break up opposition momentum with a tactical sub and their fresh legs will cause as many problems for the opponents, as they will reduce problems for Newcastle's tiring legs.

 

A few more players bought, a few players back and I still think we've enough to challenge for Europe.

 

At the same time, if you are changing your style of play, you need time on the training ground to work on it.

Which we have not had this season.

I'm not worried about results like yesterday, we wont remember them in a few years when we are challenging for honours.

Equally this season may be significant for Eddie, but the club is on an upward trajectory.

[RhymeAnimal 0]

Bloody hell.

 

Cant believe the result. It’s just not worth it at all, not worth it.