Alex 30673 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 How hard is it to understand if a club spends 20-30 million four seasons in a row while we spend nowt then spunk 80 in one go we aren't going ahead of them, we are catching up to them. To be fair I largely agree with that but it's a slightly different argument to the amount not being much. I know the £80m has to be viewed in that context too. I do think the manager takes a hefty bit of responsibility for not even looking like turning things around though. You'd think a half-decent one would be able to vastly improve on Charver, even before you take the last two transfer windows into account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 3686 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 So I am talking utter shite but you agree with me? Canny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6013 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Looking at the starting XI Mbemba, Janmaat, Gini, Shelvey, Colback, Townsend, Mitrovic and Perez are all new signings from the last 2 seasons. 8/11, nigh on a full new team. And we are still in the bottom 3 What's the problem then? Are we/do we 1 - buying bad players 2 - have a poor manager 3 - have a shit training staff Cos actually, in the last 24 months, we've had a new manager, complete new coaching staff and a team full of new players and are in exactly the same situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Definitely think Ashley doesn't realise the importance of a good manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Looking at the starting XI Mbemba, Janmaat, Gini, Shelvey, Colback, Townsend, Mitrovic and Perez are all new signings from the last 2 seasons. 8/11, nigh on a full new team. And we are still in the bottom 3 What's the problem then? Are we/do we 1 - buying bad players 2 - have a poor manager 3 - have a shit training staff Cos actually, in the last 24 months, we've had a new manager, complete new coaching staff and a team full of new players and are in exactly the same situation? I think it's a combination of pretty much all of those things. Imo English/British managers will only get you so far in the premier league, relegated or just avoiding it. Many live off just avoiding relegation season after season (See Pulis, Allardyce etc). You see "pundits" slating West Ham at the end of last year for getting rid of allardyce and daring to get a more progressive manager in because Allardyce guarantees safety. However look what has happened to them this season, they've progressed because of that change. We've bought some poor players and some good ones but we haven't had a good manager yet to get the best out of them because they have all been very limited. 80 million is a huge amount of money, I know we went backwards when we didn't spend but with the players we've bought we should be way ahead of where we are. If we were to pick a starting 11 of players from teams in the bottom 6, the majority would be our players. Edited February 17, 2016 by StoneColdStephenIreland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30673 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 So I am talking utter shite but you agree with me? Cannyyou were when you argued £80m was fuck all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30673 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Definitely think Ashley doesn't realise the importance of a good manager.or chairman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I reckon the culture is wrong as well. Everyone knows we aren't trying to win things, the players will be well aware of that too. If you think about how they can raise their game when it suits them, it seems clear to me that they feel there's no point going all out all the time as the club won't support such efforts. It won't buy better players, it won't build on their success. So they may as well only play when they're in the shop window. Even for the players, that must be a joyless existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12495 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Definitely think Ashley doesn't realise the importance of a good manager.Agree with this and Alex's point about Charnley. Edited February 17, 2016 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Fwiw I think mcclarens a bit of a loser. Probably lacks that bit of presence and slice of luck thats makes all the difference in results. I dont think we'll ever be more than mediocre under him. Its a shame cos he seems like a good man with more integrity than we got from shitbags like Allardyce and Pardew. Doesn't help that the defence is a pile of shite as others have pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Think we're still lacking natural leaders as well. Can't believe we didn't just sign Cabaye really. We'd be mid-table now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9086 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Looking at the starting XI Mbemba, Janmaat, Gini, Shelvey, Colback, Townsend, Mitrovic and Perez are all new signings from the last 2 seasons. 8/11, nigh on a full new team. And we are still in the bottom 3 What's the problem then? Are we/do we 1 - buying bad players 2 - have a poor manager 3 - have a shit training staff Cos actually, in the last 24 months, we've had a new manager, complete new coaching staff and a team full of new players and are in exactly the same situation? 4 - not strengthening weak positions. 5 - lack a competitive mentality throughout the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 27319 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 There's a lack of coherent strategy at the club, some of the things they do in isolation aren't that bad but in the bigger picture are a fucking disaster. You can't pin it down to a particular time other than the rolling timescale of non/wrong decisions at the top level. It's a lack of care and a spectacularly arrogant delusion that everything they do is right until a year down the line when they apologise for mistakes made 'in the past' before making the same mistakes all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 35145 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 If only the British public could lose its obsession with Greggs formal wear, the bloke would be on the scrapheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30673 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 There's a lack of coherent strategy at the club, some of the things they do in isolation aren't that bad but in the bigger picture are a fucking disaster. You can't pin it down to a particular time other than the rolling timescale of non/wrong decisions at the top level. It's a lack of care and a spectacularly arrogant delusion that everything they do is right until a year down the line when they apologise for mistakes made 'in the past' before making the same mistakes all over again. Yeah, spot on. You could also mention the promises of various things they are going to do to make things right and improve the situation which never materialise. Remember when Ashley was going to stick £15m of his own money in per season? The extra investment at the academy as well. You also have the aforementioned lack of attention to probably the two most important roles at the club, i.e. manager and chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30673 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 If only the British public could lose its obsession with Greggs formal wear, the bloke would be on the scrapheap. 80% off something that looks fucking awful and was overpriced to begin with is a bargain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Yeah, spot on. You could also mention the promises of various things they are going to do to make things right and improve the situation which never materialise. Remember when Ashley was going to stick £15m of his own money in per season? The extra investment at the academy as well. You also have the aforementioned lack of attention to probably the two most important roles at the club, i.e. manager and chairman. It was £20m iirc, and that promise was a "look what you could have had" that we were only told about when he said we weren't getting it for slagging him off. Think it was in the first statement he put out when he told us he was looking to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30673 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 It was £20m iirc, and that promise was a "look what you could have had" that we were only told about when he said we weren't getting it for slagging him off. Think it was in the first statement he put out when he told us he was looking to sell. What about this:http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mike-ashley-eyes-five-year-plan-1449440 as well. Like it never happened as far as most of the press is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9086 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 What about this:http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mike-ashley-eyes-five-year-plan-1449440 as well. Like it never happened as far as most of the press is concerned. Well they got one thing right Managing director Derek Llambias told the Chronicle: “In five years’ time ......We hope to be like an Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30673 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Aye, that line stood out for me as well. Would love to see a transcript of those infamous programme notes too. Think it might've been this match: http://www.nufc.com/html/2008-09html/2008-08-23bolton-h.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8914 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Before the revision Arsenal were the role model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6013 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 4 - not strengthening weak positions. 5 - lack a competitive mentality throughout the club I think that last one is the main reason. Schteve swanning into the dressing room after a 5-1 thrashing with a huge grin on his face. 'Fear not lads, don't let that distract from a great season, we are off for some sun next week' Ferguson would have cancelled La Manga and had them on Tynemouth beach doing drills til they threw up before dropping half the team for the next game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 3686 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 That I agree with. It's tough to talk money in realistic terms anymore with regards to football. Personally think the 80 million "massive" spend is gambling. Gambling being in on the huge pie of next season that would dwarf the spending. I hope the premier league and champions league eat themselves tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30673 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I think he wants us to be like Spurs but has no fucking idea how to achieve that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3530 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Matching their attendances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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