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But surely.....    

Roses are red Violets are blue Please vote for Labour Unless you're a Jew

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My patience with leave/Tory voters is spent now like.

 

If you vote for this now, you are actively voting to harm the country by putting a serial liar and bully into power, a man who only cares about being in power and will say or do anything to get it. You are choosing to ignore all evidence of companies going under due to Brexit, all the warnings of medicine supplies, food prices, all the fucking chaos this has caused, and the harm that has been done simply because it's all anyone has been able to focus on - just so that you can say you were right and can avoid admitting that maybe, just maybe, when you voted for this you had no fucking idea what you were voting for because you're politically ignorant - something that isn't directly your fault because the Tories and right wing press designed you that way, but which is your responsibility to resolve once realised - at the expense of literally the entire country and 60 million lives.

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Also going to add that no one on the Brexit side now, IMO, believes that it's for the good of the country. As evidenced by the constantly shifting goalposts on 'what the people originally voted for'. Just fucking admit that you don't care what happens as long as you get your way.

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A civil war maybe not but random acts of violence are possible.

 

I think we now need to have that referendum asap - Parliament should pass a motion for it while it retains a majority, kick Boris out of office and form a unity government, and then simply hold firm until the matter is settled one way or another. If we still vote for Brexit then it can be implemented in whatever safe way Parliament comes up with, immediately neutering Boris' 'will of the people' platform. If it goes for Remain I would say all legitimacy falls away from him to campaign for it also, though I daresay he'll try, but it'll destroy the Tory party altogether.

 

The only party with any policies left after all of this is actually going to be Labour.

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1 hour ago, strawb said:

The idea of gammons causing civil war is really funny to me, someone’s diabetic uncle kicking off isn’t civil war

History books of the future- “ The Brexit War saw a crushing loss to the Gammonheads at The Battle of Romford Wetherspoons, where over 90% of the aging BAU Gammon Army failed to turn up for battle as Bombardier was on special at £2 a pint. 

The ensuing massacre saw the People’s Popular Remain Leftist Coalition Liberation Front For Change sweep through the drunken ranks, brandishing vegan snacks at those still capable of running, and mildly rebuking the immobile in to submission.”

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30 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Boris isn’t going anywhere. And last night he went full Trump. I don’t think this new, darker style of populist strongman politics is going to go away overnight, regrettably 

 

What do you mean? It seems unlikely to me that the Tories will hang onto him if he loses an election. It's not even very clear to me that they'll hang onto him if we don't leave by October 31st. He's very vulnerable, which is why he's doubling down so hard.

 

I think once Brexit is resolved, things will settle down - which is why the sooner we have that referendum, the sooner Boris loses his legitimacy to campaign on behalf of "the people" - either his thunder is stolen, or the people change their minds.

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44 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Boris isn’t going anywhere. And last night he went full Trump. I don’t think this new, darker style of populist strongman politics is going to go away overnight, regrettably 

 

People are falling for these tactics straight out of the Bannon/Cummings playbook. Trick is to remain calm. Johnson knows what he's doing but can't keep this shit up. Am not naive enough to buy his "Tim nice but dim" schtick either but I think he's just another useful idiot for the Alt right puppeteers and he can't keep being a cunt to everyone, he's basically a clueless coward with no firm ultra right wing ideology to drive himself further down into the sewer.  He'll break at some point. 

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I admire your optimism. I would say that the one thing the last 3 years has shown us is things are going to get worse and I personally don't know where the bottom of the abyss is. I haven't lost faith in politicians, after last night and the response on social media, I've lost faith in people. How do you fix that?

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20 minutes ago, Renton said:

I admire your optimism. I would say that the one thing the last 3 years has shown us is things are going to get worse and I personally don't know where the bottom of the abyss is. I haven't lost faith in politicians, after last night and the response on social media, I've lost faith in people. How do you fix that?

 

Just try to remember it's only some of the people. And they were always there anyway, nothing has materially changed. The fact that the Tories are so determined to avoid this second referendum demonstrates to me that they know there isn't a majority for leave now. That should be encouraging to the rest of us. It's also why Brexiters are now talking about how "two thirds of the country voted to leave, based on constituencies". They know they don't have a majority. If the real people of this country get a chance to put a stop to this, they will.

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30 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

What do you mean? It seems unlikely to me that the Tories will hang onto him if he loses an election. It's not even very clear to me that they'll hang onto him if we don't leave by October 31st. He's very vulnerable, which is why he's doubling down so hard.

 

I think once Brexit is resolved, things will settle down - which is why the sooner we have that referendum, the sooner Boris loses his legitimacy to campaign on behalf of "the people" - either his thunder is stolen, or the people change their minds.

i'm not sure he will lose the election - trump won one using these tactics. but even if he doesn't, it feels to me like we these are unchartered waters. if there is a referendum and the result is overturned, or A50 is revoked, things could get much, much more sinister. there are darker forces than johnson waiting in the wings to capitalise if the "will of the people" is denied. 

ok, it's a global trend. the rise of strong man populism is happening all over the world but aren't you surprised it's happening here? the way johnson went on the attack last night, without a shred of humility, the language he used, was right out of the trump playbook and it felt like a turning point.

the brits are supposed to be pragmatic, conservative and sensible. markets are looking what is happening here right now like we're an emerging economy. we're known for stability not political crisis. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Renton said:

I admire your optimism. I would say that the one thing the last 3 years has shown us is things are going to get worse and I personally don't know where the bottom of the abyss is. I haven't lost faith in politicians, after last night and the response on social media, I've lost faith in people. How do you fix that?

 

Don't know. Are we 45-55s the last generation with a pathetic empire complex?? Probably not now thanks to the internet. Hate spreads so quickly. But it still remains a tiny minority who are properly motivated.

 

Trouble is there are powerful  people telling your average common or garden bar room bigot that their hate is justified and that all they need to do is put their cross in the right box and very, very complex problems like delivering on a narrow mandate an act there was no plan for and was obviously impossible to deliver partly due to the moronically binary question that was asked will be resolved with the minimum of fuss and bother and their lives will be great from now on. It's fuckin ridiculous how easily people are manipulated, that's what gives me the horrors. 

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15 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Don't know. Are we 45-55s the last generation with a pathetic empire complex?? Probably not now thanks to the internet. Hate spreads so quickly. But it still remains a tiny minority who are properly motivated.

 

Trouble is there are powerful  people telling your average common or garden bar room bigot that their hate is justified and that all they need to do is put their cross in the right box and very, very complex problems like delivering on a narrow mandate an act there was no plan for and was obviously impossible to deliver partly due to the moronically binary question that was asked will be resolved with the minimum of fuss and bother and their lives will be great from now on. It's fuckin ridiculous how easily people are manipulated, that's what gives me the horrors. 

Aye. This. With bells on. 

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21 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

i'm not sure he will lose the election - trump won one using these tactics. but even if he doesn't, it feels to me like we these are unchartered waters. if there is a referendum and the result is overturned, or A50 is revoked, things could get much, much more sinister. there are darker forces than johnson waiting in the wings to capitalise if the "will of the people" is denied. 

ok, it's a global trend. the rise of strong man populism is happening all over the world but aren't you surprised it's happening here? the way johnson went on the attack last night, without a shred of humility, the language he used, was right out of the trump playbook and it felt like a turning point.

the brits are supposed to be pragmatic, conservative and sensible. markets are looking what is happening here right now like we're an emerging economy. we're known for stability not political crisis. 

 

 

 

Austerity is what caused all of this pent up frustration, and a vivid reaction to it was always coming - I hoped it would be a left wing one, hence my backing for Corbyn, but it was in the end a right wing one, since far right populism appears to be eternally more palatable to the centre than moderate left populism. Either way it was coming though, and we've known this for years now. Corbyn and Brexit are symptoms of the same thing, the failure of the centre. I've said this many times.

 

This doesn't mean Johnson is the only way though - if we can wrench the power from the right, a left wing program could settle things down as well. I don't really believe that there is a large groundswell of opinion even among Brexit leave voters for a far right takeover of the country. Brexit itself is just such a toxic phenomenon that it's consuming the entire discourse.

 

The culture war is indeed global, and it will continue to have an impact here and elsewhere, but if we on the left and centre actually engage with the issues properly, we can fix this. And Corbyn's Labour manifesto would address a lot of it. We need to push back against corporate globalism from a left wing position.

 

More immediately though, I think people's enthusiasm for Brexit will die down once Boris is out of the way - I mean after him, who will spearhead it?

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2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

there's one thing this referendum should show is is there is no place in this country for direct democracy. what a fucking shambles. 

 

Fully agree with you there, although we do need one to cancel out the original.

 

We also need citizenship and critical thinking classes to be taught at schools as a compulsory part of the syllabus. I would personally go so far as to say eligibility to vote should depend on passing them.

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32 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Austerity is what caused all of this pent up frustration, and a vivid reaction to it was always coming - I hoped it would be a left wing one, hence my backing for Corbyn, but it was in the end a right wing one, since far right populism appears to be eternally more palatable to the centre than moderate left populism. Either way it was coming though, and we've known this for years now. Corbyn and Brexit are symptoms of the same thing, the failure of the centre. I've said this many times.

 

This doesn't mean Johnson is the only way though - if we can wrench the power from the right, a left wing program could settle things down as well. I don't really believe that there is a large groundswell of opinion even among Brexit leave voters for a far right takeover of the country. Brexit itself is just such a toxic phenomenon that it's consuming the entire discourse.

 

The culture war is indeed global, and it will continue to have an impact here and elsewhere, but if we on the left and centre actually engage with the issues properly, we can fix this. And Corbyn's Labour manifesto would address a lot of it. We need to push back against corporate globalism from a left wing position.

 

More immediately though, I think people's enthusiasm for Brexit will die down once Boris is out of the way - I mean after him, who will spearhead it?

i don't know. maybe ask this lot

 

 

 

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