Renton 17797 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 What do you consider the "huge negative consequences for England"? Huge costs as independence is achieved, diminished tax returns, Trident problem, armed forces problem, border control problem, loss of confidence in our currency, and a loss of status on the world stage. Off the top of my head like. Major headache at the very least for us, I see catastrophe for Scotland. A large portion of both countries have relatives in the other so this isn't nice. I think from the pov of NE England, we will be further marginalised and subjected to more right wing governments. Great. You should be all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I think the closeness of the vote means there'll be a lot of resentment on either side regardless of the result. And, given how much momentum the independence movement has gained over the past few years, perhaps a 'No' vote is just delaying the inevitable anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Brown done a good speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 10003 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 http://machotrouts.tumblr.com/post/97748597900/morihaventgotshitonme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ 0 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I think the closeness of the vote means there'll be a lot of resentment on either side regardless of the result. And, given how much momentum the independence movement has gained over the past few years, perhaps a 'No' vote is just delaying the inevitable anyway. This is how I feel really. It's going to be close (still think No will win to be honest) but the desire is there for it and it's strong. Westminster with their vague promises of more powers will inevitably cause a backlash when they fail to deliver and treat Scotland with the same contempt they've treated everyone north of the Watford gap for years. When they do go back to their usual ways, there will be a bigger push for independence than there is now. My honest prediction is that we'll vote No tomorrow (probably 52%-48%), then we'll revisit it in about 20 years and vote Yes reasonably comfortably, leaving people like me spending the next 20 years saying "see, we told you so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Civil war brewing tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The Clans are err.. Clanning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26391 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) http://machotrouts.tumblr.com/post/97748597900/morihaventgotshitonme Edited September 18, 2014 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 10003 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Andy Murray officially 100% Scottish now, except for the 2 weeks Wimbledon is on http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/18/andy-murray-on-scottish-independence-vote-lets-do-this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Find it distressing there seems to be a not insignificant amount of people who seem to be basing their vote on who they hate more out of Salmond and Cameron, or whether they feel one campaign is being patronising or threatening or whatever. Just vote for what you honestly think is best for the long term success of your country, try to take these short term things like Darling's eyebrows and Salmond's face out of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The electorate are fickle and thick in equal amounts. Everywhere, not just Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The electorate are fickle and thick in equal amounts. Everywhere, not just Scotland. I find myself to be fully in agreement with this statement. That said, we're better over here than the sorts of personality contests that accompany US politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 This is how I feel really. It's going to be close (still think No will win to be honest) but the desire is there for it and it's strong. Westminster with their vague promises of more powers will inevitably cause a backlash when they fail to deliver and treat Scotland with the same contempt they've treated everyone north of the Watford gap for years. When they do go back to their usual ways, there will be a bigger push for independence than there is now. My honest prediction is that we'll vote No tomorrow (probably 52%-48%), then we'll revisit it in about 20 years and vote Yes reasonably comfortably, leaving people like me spending the next 20 years saying "see, we told you so." I was under the impression that the agreement between the SNP and Westminster was that this would take a referendum off the table for another 100 years. Obviously if enough momentum picks up then this may be revisited, but I think a lot of Scottish people are getting swept along in the nationalistic fervour and equally, off the back of the generally crap economic situation; hence the 20 point swing in the last one year. If it had been this close a year ago, it'd be a different story - but it wasn't. The closeness is coming off the back of all the hype and clever political posturing by Salmond; it's not like that will keep up after a No vote. This is the SNP's one moment, and if they fail here, they'll diminish. Without a strong nationalist party to rally around, the momentum will be lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The electorate are fickle and thick in equal amounts. It's a close run thing as far as you're concerned anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Well I've watched a few debates over the last couple of weeks and if I was Scottish voting today I'd vote yes. I don't think it will be the bed of roses the SNP promise, but the longer view of actually being able to manage all your affairs and elect governments that reflect the majority of your country would override any short term down sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14600 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The electorate are fickle and thick in equal amounts. Everywhere, not just Scotland. I find myself to be fully in agreement with this statement. That said, we're better over here than the sorts of personality contests that accompany US politics. yeah and its the likes of fuckin geniuses like you two who fully deserve a vote like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4222 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 16 and 17 year olds can vote today.which is fucking stupid, I can't imagine my 16 year old self with a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I can. For the 16-year-old me, I mean; obviously I don't know how thick you were at 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14600 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 What's the actual difference between 16 and 18? How much more are you likely to have gained in intelligence in two late teenage years? The issue has only come about because its seen as Salmon seeking to gain an advantage, which is of course correct. Fwiw, my sisters eldest was 18 a month ago and is voting no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34505 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 It's a close run thing as far as you're concerned anyway. thickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) yeah and its the likes of fuckin geniuses like you two who fully deserve a vote like Didn't say they didn't deserve a vote, just that people are stupid and tribal. I recall when the Obamacare program was being rolled out in the US, people who had serious medical conditions were being brought out to state why they would vote against it - these were people whose lives could have been improved immeasurably by access to cheaper healthcare, coming out against it because they were republican. What is the point in democracy if a) half the population don't vote, and b ) most people don't understand what they're voting for? Perhaps I should have phrased it differently - a lot of people are underinformed and therefore not capable of making decisions that are in their best interests. These people will tend to vote following whatever they read in the papers that reinforces their world view, and don't subject their choices to critical analysis. These people should not vote - they are not fully informed. Edited September 18, 2014 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26391 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 And exactly why compulsory voting is a ridiculous system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14600 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Do you get a vote where you're from Rayvin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) I live in Newcastle so I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean... EDIT - Unless you meant with respect of Scotland, in which case no. Edited September 18, 2014 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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