The Entirely Reasonable Potential Transfers Thread

[Howay 12462]

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

There's no guarantee of that, who's to say that every transfer won't be drawn out and expensive? Wood had a release clause that we could pay and plays in a position that was an immediate concern. Centreback wasn't as vital as centre forward because, for all they're not very good we do at least own some centre backs.

 

Chasing Botman and Carlos wasn't obviously doomed to fail from the off, so I don't  mind them spending time trying to get the deals done. But spending over the odds on an average CB will impact; squad spaces, transfer kitty, the price of the next one and so on. And there's no guarantee they'd be better than what we've got.

There’s not a guarantee of anything, no, but I can’t imagine that’s the case and there’s no players anywhere better than we have that we can’t get without massively overpaying for. All these positions are equally as vital, as it’s clear we aren’t winning games without improving them. 
 

Your point also lends itself to the overpaying argument, as if there’s no one we can get without overpaying then we need to overpay. We can’t expect to bounce back from the Championship next year with a bespoke squad if we refuse to overpay for anyone, we can all assume the summer window might be easier but for us it might not be and then the issue is you’re taking the earnings hit on top of overpaying for players you should expect to have little or no use for a year later (unless some are younger players with potential). 
 

I want to be clear that I blame Ashley, but I don’t think we should act like everything this lot do is some methodical plan, they can and imo clearly are (the time the manager search took) making mistakes. I understand we might go down and rebuild, but I’m just critiquing what I see from them on the basis of trying to stay up - and it does give me some nerves about this assumption we will go down and piss the league type stuff as we absolutely do need to buy to win in the championship something they’ve been struggling with. We can list the mitigating factors of why the January window is hard but at the same time they have made very slow progress - hopefully we have what we need by the end of the window, but if we don’t I think the concern over their perceived hardline desire to not be ripped off is a valid one. 

[Dr Gloom 19844]

21 minutes ago, Ken said:

If Seville allow him to come here we will know by them buying a new CB to replace him.

[Howay 12462]

2 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:

I understand people's concerns. The current squad will go down. We've got 9 days to get players in and we seem to have been treading water with the same names for the last fortnight. 
 

And there's plenty of teams that have gone down to the championship, spent good money and still failed to come back up. I'd rather not have to do it for a 3rd time in recent memory.

 

I don't think it's bed wetting, just people sounding off understandable worries!

Spot on. As I’ve said before maybe behind the scenes we are working on 10 different options for CB and are running into brick walls but I can only comment on what I see, which as you say seems like we’ve been focusing on the same targets whose clubs are asking for a level of overpayment we won’t make. 
 

The second paragraph is my concern, that coupled with this supposed worry about overpaying and being difficult (again all public/reported it may not be true but it’s what we see), I just don’t see this “we will buy our way out of the championship immediately” that others do yes the summer window is easier but clubs will still hold us to ransom. 
 

I really don’t want to be a championship team again. It’s shite, the referees are fucking mental down there, and as a person that’s proud of where I’m from and proud of my club I’m sick to the back teeth of the piss taking and a relegation will create an avalanche of it. As I noted in my other post I blame Ashley for where we are, not the current owners however I don’t think they should be absolved of any criticism or worry about their methods simply because they’re rich and we assume it’ll click into gear. If we go down, we go down and I’m still 100% behind them and Howe - as like I say I don’t blame them like I blame Ashley, but at the moment they have a chance to change things as we have been fortunate to be 2 points behind but so far we’ve barely improved. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Howay

[Dr Gloom 19844]

7 minutes ago, Howay said:

There’s not a guarantee of anything, no, but I can’t imagine that’s the case and there’s no players anywhere better than we have that we can’t get without massively overpaying for. All these positions are equally as vital, as it’s clear we aren’t winning games without improving them. 
 

Your point also lends itself to the overpaying argument, as if there’s no one we can get without overpaying then we need to overpay. We can’t expect to bounce back from the Championship next year with a bespoke squad if we refuse to overpay for anyone, we can all assume the summer window might be easier but for us it might not be and then the issue is you’re taking the earnings hit on top of overpaying for players you should expect to have little or no use for a year later (unless some are younger players with potential). 
 

I want to be clear that I blame Ashley, but I don’t think we should act like everything this lot do is some methodical plan, they can and imo clearly are (the time the manager search took) making mistakes. I understand we might go down and rebuild, but I’m just critiquing what I see from them on the basis of trying to stay up - and it does give me some nerves about this assumption we will go down and piss the league type stuff as we absolutely do need to buy to win in the championship something they’ve been struggling with. We can list the mitigating factors of why the January window is hard but at the same time they have made very slow progress - hopefully we have what we need by the end of the window, but if we don’t I think the concern over their perceived hardline desire to not be ripped off is a valid one. 

 

yup. we'll know by the end of the window whether the strategy paid off. let's say we somehow find a way to beat leeds tomorrow then get four players in before feb which don't blow the bank too much, then you can say it did. on the other hand we might lose to leeds and still end up paying a massive premium for players in the final week because we're desperate by then 

[Kid Dynamite 5941]

The suggestion that we can just buy a bespoke squad to get us out of the championship btw...

 

We've still got half of the last bespoke squad we bought and we are 6 years down the line  

[The Fish 9021]

5 minutes ago, Howay said:

There’s not a guarantee of anything, no, but I can’t imagine that’s the case and there’s no players anywhere better than we have that we can’t get without massively overpaying for. All these positions are equally as vital, as it’s clear we aren’t winning games without improving them. 
 

Your point also lends itself to the overpaying argument, as if there’s no one we can get without overpaying then we need to overpay. We can’t expect to bounce back from the Championship next year with a bespoke squad if we refuse to overpay for anyone, we can all assume the summer window might be easier but for us it might not be and then the issue is you’re taking the earnings hit on top of overpaying for players you should expect to have little or no use for a year later (unless some are younger players with potential). 
 

I want to be clear that I blame Ashley, but I don’t think we should act like everything this lot do is some methodical plan, they can and imo clearly are (the time the manager search took) making mistakes. I understand we might go down and rebuild, but I’m just critiquing what I see from them on the basis of trying to stay up - and it does give me some nerves about this assumption we will go down and piss the league type stuff as we absolutely do need to buy to win in the championship something they’ve been struggling with. We can list the mitigating factors of why the January window is hard but at the same time they have made very slow progress - hopefully we have what we need by the end of the window, but if we don’t I think the concern over their perceived hardline desire to not be ripped off is a valid one. 

 

Agree with most of this.

 

Have to say that it's not just the over paying, it's the drawn out process. Essentially unless there's a release clause we're going to have to fight tooth and nail for the majority of the transfers. 

 

Would say that we'll have a greater amount of time and (hopefully) have personnel in place to expedite this complex process.

[Ken 119]

So.  We are waiting for new signings

[Howay 12462]

8 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

Agree with most of this.

 

Have to say that it's not just the over paying, it's the drawn out process. Essentially unless there's a release clause we're going to have to fight tooth and nail for the majority of the transfers. 

 

Would say that we'll have a greater amount of time and (hopefully) have personnel in place to expedite this complex process.

I agree with that, and while I’m being quicker to note my worries here I do understand deals may happen this next week. My worry though is that we’re not as far as is hoped, or that these clubs we are holding out will drop their price and we get them simply won’t (as was the case with Sevilla with Kounde in summer). 
 

The point about personnel is fair, the hope would be that even if the current lot is floundering due to inexperience or otherwise that by summer we have a DoF or something in place who can be a bit more savvy and possibly a little more realistic with who we chase (I understand the targets they’ve chased apparently want to come i more mean realistic in the chance the clubs will come to a fair agreement with us). 

[The Fish 9021]

33 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

The suggestion that we can just buy a bespoke squad to get us out of the championship btw...

 

We've still got half of the last bespoke squad we bought and we are 6 years down the line  

Right, so it was possible to do just that on a smaller budget with Mike Ashley in situ. You think it'll be easier, or harder to do it on a larger budget with the Saudis in charge?

 

And do you think we'll still have that squad 6 years down the line from then?

 

 

[The Fish 9021]

23 minutes ago, Howay said:

I agree with that, and while I’m being quicker to note my worries here I do understand deals may happen this next week. My worry though is that we’re not as far as is hoped, or that these clubs we are holding out will drop their price and we get them simply won’t (as was the case with Sevilla with Kounde in summer). 
 

The point about personnel is fair, the hope would be that even if the current lot is floundering due to inexperience or otherwise that by summer we have a DoF or something in place who can be a bit more savvy and possibly a little more realistic with who we chase (I understand the targets they’ve chased apparently want to come i more mean realistic in the chance the clubs will come to a fair agreement with us). 

I think that'll be true in the summer regardless of who we've got trying to broker the deal. January windows have always been a pickle.

[Howay 12462]

6 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I think that'll be true in the summer regardless of who we've got trying to broker the deal. January windows have always been a pickle.

I hope so. The worry would be that the money these owners have creates this constant demand for overpayment, and until we have any leverage whatsoever it’s pretty hard to fight against. If we are at the point where we are comfortably a mid table PL side and are just looking to improve I think that side of things weaken. Maybe the overpayment asked will be lower in summer but I think they’re still going to have to bite the bullet on that. 

[The Fish 9021]

2 minutes ago, Howay said:

I hope so. The worry would be that the money these owners have creates this constant demand for overpayment, and until we have any leverage whatsoever it’s pretty hard to fight against. If we are at the point where we are comfortably a mid table PL side and are just looking to improve I think that side of things weaken. Maybe the overpayment asked will be lower in summer but I think they’re still going to have to bite the bullet on that. 

Oh 100%

 

Man City are still charged a premium on players because they're a rich, Premier League club, fighting for titles. We'll get charged a premium because we're richer than that, and a Premier League club, even though we're fighting for survival.

[Ken 119]

Let's chill 

[The Fish 9021]

[Winston 41]

30 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Oh 100%

 

Man City are still charged a premium on players because they're a rich, Premier League club, fighting for titles. We'll get charged a premium because we're richer than that, and a Premier League club, even though we're fighting for survival.

Man City hardly ever spent 50m+ on players for a long long time

[wykikitoon 16751]

18 minutes ago, Winston said:

Man City hardly ever spent 50m+ on players for a long long time

Grealish - £100m this season
Dias - £61m last season

Ake & Torres a combined total of £70m - Last Season

Cancelo - £58m - 19/20

Rodri - £56m - 19/20

Mahrez - £61m - 18/19

Laporte - £58m - 17/18

Mendy - £51m - 17/18

etc

 

 

[Winston 41]

22 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Grealish - £100m this season
Dias - £61m last season

Ake & Torres a combined total of £70m - Last Season

Cancelo - £58m - 19/20

Rodri - £56m - 19/20

Mahrez - £61m - 18/19

Laporte - £58m - 17/18

Mendy - £51m - 17/18

etc

 

 

Aye but they were bought in 2008. Yes they have spent alot on a load of players in the 20-50m range but they have been very restrained with the big money transfers. I was surprised it took to 2021 to spend 100m on one player. 

[The Fish 9021]

32 minutes ago, Winston said:

Aye but they were bought in 2008. Yes they have spent alot on a load of players in the 20-50m range but they have been very restrained with the big money transfers. I was surprised it took to 2021 to spend 100m on one player. 

That's less to do with parsimony and more to do with market values.

 

How many players were moving for £50m before 2008?

[ewerk 26505]

There’s definitely a point to what our Manc friend is saying. Grealish is the only City player in the top ten most expensive PL transfers but they have six players in the spots 11-20. 
 

So they do obviously spend a lot of money but they’ve spent it on talent and potential rather than spunking it on players who are already the best in the world.

[Billy Whitehurst 791]

Man City’s transfer policy is generally pretty sound. When they feel they have a need to strengthen a position then they buy for that position (and try to have two players for every position), unlike say Man Utd’s approach. They haven’t bought many duds so their transfers are well researched. They also make a decent amount through sales (Sane and Torres for example) and are able to do that because Guardiola is excellent at improving players.

 

The way they have structured their club, and how they do business, is something we should aspire too rather than a Galactico approach. 

[Polarboy 2124]

NUFC line up Diego Carlos & Jesse Lingard alternatives should moves for both fail - Reports | NUFC blog – Newcastle United blog – NUFC Fixtures, News and Forum.

 

The Marseille centre back Duje Caleta-Car, and Dele Alli are supposedly our alternatives to Carlos and Lingard should both those moves fall through. Alli at his best is a better player than Lingard, or at the very least is equal in quality when both are on song. The question is will Alli ever get back to that sort of form. I haven't seen the Spurs doc when Mourinho was there, but iirc there's been question marks over his attitude, or at least the mental side of his game. Of course you could also ask if Lingard would even get close to reproducing the sort of form he showed for West Ham were we to get him. 

[Kid Dynamite 5941]

6 hours ago, The Fish said:

Right, so it was possible to do just that on a smaller budget with Mike Ashley in situ. You think it'll be easier, or harder to do it on a larger budget with the Saudis in charge?

 

And do you think we'll still have that squad 6 years down the line from then?

 

 

I think the shit players we pay a premium for in the championship will be very hard to move on in the premier league. 

[Ayatollah Hermione 12768]

Big Hamza linked again  Will be decent next season, I suppose

[Alex 30479]

I think we’d have easily been able to move on Lascelles, Ritchie, Hayden etc. if we’d been in the hypothetical scenario whereby we’d just come up and had loads of money to spend on improvements. It’s just the previous owner kept extending the contracts of players who should’ve been moved on. Just because he wasn’t interested in progress and it was cheaper. Also players will want to come here so I don’t get the immediate assumption they’ll be shit. If players want to come then they normally get the move they want. They aren’t going to be the same potential pool of players who’ll come if we stay up but if we attracted ambitious players last time it’ll be easier this time in the championship. It’s by no means an ideal scenario of course 

[ohhh_yeah 2786]

23 hours ago, Polarboy said:

It's very debatable how trustworthy some of these Italian publications are, but supposedly we've agreed personal terms with Zapata. We just have to agree a fee with us having reportedly offered 30 euro and Atalanta wanting 40. 

 

How about a Colombian source?

 

https://www.eltiempo.com/deportes/futbol-internacional/duvan-zapata-goleador-colombiano-esta-muy-cerca-del-newcastle-646329

 

Says a new bid of 44 million has been submitted.