NJS

Definitely not, but at least keeping the vermin out.

+12 for labour - an absolute stretch I know - opens up a lab/ld/SNP working figure.

I saw a tweet from Ben Goldacre saying anyone who uses the phrase "tax burden" should fuck off to Sierra Leone or Bulgaria as they have the lowest taxes in the world but are obviously shit holes. There's no connect between taxes and a civilised society here as there is in Germany or the scandanavian countries. Stuff like this should be taught in schools.

My nasty side has thought at least the destruction of the NHS will mean some of these fuckers will die earlier in pain.

I was just thinking voting labour in Chelmsford is as completely pointless as voting Labour in South Shields. I voted dead on seven, first in the queue, wiped out fourfold within a minute by the cunts who arrived just after me.

Just for context, I've heard a couple of low key discussions in the office which I didn't steam in to as I like having a job but the general dismissal of labour and Corbyn is ridiculous. What I would call sensible people steaming in with "terrorists friend" and saying Johnson isn't too bad. No mention of the lying coward at the top. It's not just Sun readers and cuntish pensioners. I did get the impression it's not just Corbyn though which is why I stayed out. It would be worth a shock just for going to work tomorrow.

I suppose if he does resign, the positive is it'll be three years ahead of what it could have been. Of course 2 extra years of Tory rule is one hell of a price.

That assumes they're all fine upstanding socialists though.

Yes, both relative failures but I don't think Kinnock is met with the same invective. He's seen as bridging the gap between the Thatcher landslides and labour being able to win with Blair which I think is fair. Brexit has changed the picture massively, given that result and how it's affected the voters, I can't see any position labour could have taken to make a huge difference. It also has to be said that Scottish devolution was a massive mistake from a UK Labour Party pov given the number of seats lost due to failure to come to terms with the snp.

Kinnock failed miserably against major in 92. He did resign but I'd say this campaign has been better than that one.

When the plp come out of hiding, I think they should acknowledge the general popularity of the manifesto as well as the engagement with members. I fear they'll go tory lite again though.

I still think of Gordon Brown as overall a decent bloke but he's stained by having those same cozy chats with Dacre. I suppose you could say it's pragmatic but it still stinks.

I consider Wykiki to be the benchmark for Yorkshireness.

I meant meaningless in the context of everyday life - people know how well off they are but can't see any connection with that and the deficit or indeed any other metrics. That's why I find bragging about growth of GDP to be so irrelevant - we might as well use a system of five smilies to measure economic performance.

Thing is the deficit is meaningless to nearly everybody except for its use to beat labour - morons who think a country's economy is like a household one. The yanks are sitting on trillions of debt but Obama still tried to stimulate the economy - as has been said many times, austerity is ideology not economics.

I don't want to start a post mortem now but I wonder if they could have learnt a lesson from Clinton - I think she lost by not concentrating all her efforts in the swing states. I'm not sure how UK campaigns are planned but I'm sure they could stick to the 120 key seats and go all out there.

People always accept the tory "Labour are incompetent" line - "compared to fucking what" should be the stock response.

I come into Liverpool Street station and work very close to St Paul's - I pretty much only see coppers with guns these days and I think in the context of the locations I don't mind at all. I don't think I'd like it in town on a night out or at the match though.

Yeah the vests were a "good" tactic from that pov but I've seen pub fights involving heed the balls and I'm still surprised nobody tried.

I read they went into a pub - I can't see why a few blokes using chairs couldn't seriously hurt them despite the knives.

They won't risk the arms industry by mentioning the backers by name.

It'll end in tears but close polls might at least encourage the young to vote - of course it might also encourage complacent tories as well.

The point is people who think Britain is so great because of the imperialist past and support willy waving are exactly those who voted for Brexit, are anti-immigration and support cuts. That includes the traditional labour voters we both admit exist - ever think the reason the reason why those "values" are brainwashed into people are so they tolerate having the piss taken out of them and vote against their interests? The dichotomy of trident versus decent public services is one of attitude - it's corporation tax cuts versus nurse's wages all over again - lost arguments based on twisted priorities.

What's the point of pissing about on the world stage when disabled people are starving to death? The nationalism so loved by the right of the monarchy, CofE, aristocracy, military and empire is exactly that which scapegoats the poor - it's about time somebody redefined patriotism to be about things that actually matter - it's just a shame that one of those things - the NHS - will extend the lives and influence of people who don't deserve it.

You're a couple of years younger than me and in our lifetimes there's never been any where near any war that warranted conscription and that couldn't have been avoided easily with common sense. It also included humiliations like Suez. One of the failings of our education system is the emphasis on empire and the military - alright in its place but we should have moved on.