Politics

[Isegrim 8870]

On 12/12/2022 at 05:42, Gemmill said:

 

 

Missed this yesterday. Right wing version of Momentum or something. 

 

Ah, Some splitters. That’s how the NSDAP did evolve. Priti will be pleased.

[wykikitoon 16647]

20 hours ago, Renton said:

 

This is where we are at the moment. Freezing temperatures, no wind. 12% of our energy coming from interconnectors, only 4% from wind, meaning we are essentially dependent on France and Norway. Its why we can't rely on wind power to the extent some think we can. When our limited gas reserves are depleted further, we may see black outs if this weather continues.

 

Meanwhile have a look at today's spot price for electricity. We are paying 5 times more than any other country in Europe from what I can see.

The book, No more planet B has a chapter on renewables and it basically says wind power is one of the shitest.  It surprised me like.

[wykikitoon 16647]

28 minutes ago, Renton said:

Look at this latest forecast.

 

 

Results of this modelling suggest Sunak himself would be unseated. As much as I fucking hate the tories, and this owuld be hilarious for the shits and giggles, I am not sure it is good for democracy and as the tory party is now facing a real existential threat, I am scared what they will try next. Because moderation does not seem to be their MO, even under Sunak, all we get is more extremism.

 

 

 

Far right fuckers finishing off what Thatcher wanted.

[Renton 17776]

7 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

The book, No more planet B has a chapter on renewables and it basically says wind power is one of the shitest.  It surprised me like.

 

There's a video on youtube which shows you could provide all the World's energy needs by having a solar farm in the Sahara. It would need to be the size of New Mexico like, and I imagine wiring it up to North America might be difficult, but still. I think for more equatorial countries this would be a better more reliable solution than wind if storage can be sorted out. 

[Renton 17776]

11 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Far right fuckers finishing off what Thatcher wanted.

 

I think she would be fucking horrified at what they've become personally. 

[Gemmill 34461]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

There's a video on youtube which shows you could provide all the World's energy needs by having a solar farm in the Sahara. It would need to be the size of New Mexico like, and I imagine wiring it up to North America might be difficult, but still. I think for more equatorial countries this would be a better more reliable solution than wind if storage can be sorted out. 

 

I'm reading a book, Project Hail Mary, by the bloke that wrote The Martian. 

 

Anyway, it's fiction, but it's about a future scenario where something in space starts leeching the energy from the sun. Humanity mobilises to try and sort it out and one of the first things they do is exactly this. Turn the desert into a solar farm. 

 

Humanity only mobilises in fiction though. We'll just sleepwalk to extinction. 

[Craig 6306]

11 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I think she would be fucking horrified at what they've become personally. 

 

Yeah I agree. for all the damage Thatcher did she knew she needed representation from across the Tory spectrum - hence why she had right-wing fuckheads like Tebbit alongside moderates such as Heseltine and Clarke in her cabinet. 
 

[Craig 6306]

What an absolute cunt this pathetic excuse for a human being is.

 

 

[Alex 30409]

 

24 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

Yeah I agree. for all the damage Thatcher did she knew she needed representation from across the Tory spectrum - hence why she had right-wing fuckheads like Tebbit alongside moderates such as Heseltine and Clarke in her cabinet. 
 

Yeah. That and attempting to prioritise economic growth rather than throwing it under the bus in favour of an insane ideology. She wouldn’t have stood for the corruption either. I do think she put us onto the road to where we are though. Basically bribing a richer, older demographic in order to win elections in the short-term. I could go on but I can’t be arsed 

[spongebob toonpants 3603]

She ended the post war concensus, began the dismantling of the state, sold off our assets for the profit of the few and started the transfer of wealth from the workers to the rich. Also her housing policy has lead directly to where we are now 

She deserves credit for nothing

[Monkeys Fist 38761]

1 hour ago, Craig said:

What an absolute cunt this pathetic excuse for a human being is.

 

 

Why are we still talking about illegal immigration? 
Didn’t we “take back control of our borders” when we left the EU? 
So, either we didn’t take back control of our borders, and the Brexiteers were full of shit, or, The Tories are so incompetent that, having taken back our borders, they’ve monumentally failed to actually control them? 
 

[Dr Gloom 19824]

2 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

She ended the post war concensus, began the dismantling of the state, sold off our assets for the profit of the few and started the transfer of wealth from the workers to the rich. Also her housing policy has lead directly to where we are now 

She deserves credit for nothing

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here for a minute because I broadly agree but lot of working class people did very well under Thatcher. Small businesses for example loved her. It’s one of the reasons she kept winning elections.  

 

 

[Dr Gloom 19824]

1 hour ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Why are we still talking about illegal immigration? 
Didn’t we “take back control of our borders” when we left the EU? 
So, either we didn’t take back control of our borders, and the Brexiteers were full of shit, or, The Tories are so incompetent that, having taken back our borders, they’ve monumentally failed to actually control them? 
 

It is the only thing they’ve got left. They’re desperate to mask how they have tanked the economy. At a time when people up and down the country are struggling to heat their homes or put food on the table, it’s their last remaining card and you can trust them to double down on fear and bigotry. 

[spongebob toonpants 3603]

6 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here for a minute because I broadly agree but lot of working class people did very well under Thatcher. Small businesses for example loved her. It’s one of the reasons she kept winning elections.  

 

 

She got lucky with north sea oil, bribed people with their council houses and selling off utilities. All short term thinking roared on by the right-wing press and swallowed by idiots

[Isegrim 8870]

31 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I’m going to play devil’s advocate

 

Appropriate wording

[Renton 17776]

3 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

She ended the post war concensus, began the dismantling of the state, sold off our assets for the profit of the few and started the transfer of wealth from the workers to the rich. Also her housing policy has lead directly to where we are now 

She deserves credit for nothing

 

Giving her credit is the wrong term, but she was a major driver behind the formation of the single market as it became known. As Alex says, she didn't throw the economy under the bus and her beliefs were coherent and evidence based, even if I don't agree with them. And whilst all your points are valid, I don't recall her being a liar in the way Johnson and the wider tory party now are. I keep on saying it, but it is the death of truth that has well and truly fucked this country imo. Its spread like a contagion so even the opposition are infected.

 

At the end of the day, you knew what you got with Thatcher and you could make an informed choice based on that. And people did. And it proved most people are selfish cunts in this country. But the country was functional. Now it is literally falling apart. 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Renton

[Monkeys Fist 38761]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

I don't recall her being a liar in the way Johnson and the wider tory party now are.

I think the lads from Orgreave might disagree with that, mind. 

[Renton 17776]

25 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

I think the lads from Orgreave might disagree with that, mind. 

 

She used specific and selective lies maybe. She lied about the closure list, not to mention she co-opted the police as a political weapon. I dunno though, I thought at the time it was obvious what she was about, and people accepted it anyway. She said there was no such thing as society openly, and people were happy with that. She ultimately delivered what she promised, which was a much worse version of the country than I wanted, but it was a country that worked on some level. I just think Johnson and his aftermath are on a different level. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Renton

[Dr Gloom 19824]

2 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

She got lucky with north sea oil, bribed people with their council houses and selling off utilities. All short term thinking roared on by the right-wing press and swallowed by idiots

Like, I said I broadly agree about Thatcher.  What she did to whole communities in the north and in Wales was unforgivable. 
 

But the bit about transferring wealth from the workers to the rich doesn’t tell the whole story. Depends on how you define worker I suppose - she was gunning for nationalised industries but she supported entrepreneurship. 

My mate’s dad, for example, is as working class as they come, and he loved her. He loved her for lowering taxes, he loved that he was able to start his own business thanks to the help he got from Thatcher’s enterprise allowance scheme which topped up his wages every week. It’s voters like him who kept her in power. (He’s not from the north east, unsurprisingly)
 

I don’t think supporting free enterprise is a bad thing. It’s just all the other stuff which she is rightly loathed for. 

[spongebob toonpants 3603]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

As Alex says, she didn't throw the economy under the bus and her beliefs were coherent and evidence based, 

She sold everything off and spunked off all the oil money to enrich the bosses and buy elections with tax giveaways

She fucked the NHS and Education, destroyed British industry, and it took Labour years to repair the economy that her ideological mania shagged.

 

Everything can be traced back to her. Look at the state of the privatised industries. Water, energy,  railways, all fucked, housing turbo funked

 

We should have had sovereign wealth fund, oil could have seen us modernised with the best services and welfare in Europe

 

Can't believe what I'm reading

 

 

[Renton 17776]

17 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

She sold everything off and spunked off all the oil money to enrich the bosses and buy elections with tax giveaways

She fucked the NHS and Education, destroyed British industry, and it took Labour years to repair the economy that her ideological mania shagged.

 

Everything can be traced back to her. Look at the state of the privatised industries. Water, energy,  railways, all fucked, housing turbo funked

 

We should have had sovereign wealth fund, oil could have seen us modernised with the best services and welfare in Europe

 

Can't believe what I'm reading

 

 

 

Not sure what you think you are reading. I agree with all that you've posted. Just think the current state of charlatans are even worse. And not in a continuity sense. In a completely incompetent and corrupt sense, as well as pure evil ideologically (the ones that even bother to have any ideals). Blair inherited a salvageable situation. I'm not sure Starmer will. 

[ewerk 26345]

 

It's absolutely crazy that people are trying this crossing with current weather conditions.

[PaddockLad 14585]

Highly illegal but half a dozen RIBs of Royal Marines would largely wipe out the smuggling gangs in a month. Chase them away from the entire channel/North Sea coast by arresting the pilots and confiscating the dinghies. They’re fucked without them. Set up safe routes at consulates and embassies where people can apply.  I sometimes get the feeling that this mob of corrupt incompetent wankers don’t mind the situation as it is though, it made Sunak look like a hard man yesterday and distracted people away from the other clusterfucks these are responsible for… 

[Alex 30409]

16 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Why are we still talking about illegal immigration? 
Didn’t we “take back control of our borders” when we left the EU? 
So, either we didn’t take back control of our borders, and the Brexiteers were full of shit, or, The Tories are so incompetent that, having taken back our borders, they’ve monumentally failed to actually control them? 
 

The EU are waving them all through, obvs

 

[Renton 17776]

11 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Highly illegal but half a dozen RIBs of Royal Marines would largely wipe out the smuggling gangs in a month. Chase them away from the entire channel/North Sea coast by arresting the pilots and confiscating the dinghies. They’re fucked without them. Set up safe routes at consulates and embassies where people can apply.  I sometimes get the feeling that this mob of corrupt incompetent wankers don’t mind the situation as it is though, it made Sunak look like a hard man yesterday and distracted people away from the other clusterfucks these are responsible for… 

 

Agreed, they love a wedge issue,  but this is what I meant by being worried what the tories will do next to survive. Patel and Johnson are now both sponsoring a bill for us to leave the ECHR. No doubt if it happens Starmer will convince himself its a good thing and we can't reverse it. NOT DEFENDING THATCHER here but no way would she have got involved in shit like this.