Transfers, 2023-24 season

[Holden McGroin 5014]

8 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

Dubravka hasn't been good for us since his initial loan spell IMO. I think people remember the first six months when they talk about remembering how "good" he is/was.

 

He was a half decent shot stopper, but his rashness when rushing out has cost us shit loads of goals down the years. I personally always thought Darlow was a better goalie, although still not good enough for where we wanted to be post takeover.

 

A goalie has to come in Jan, with Pope out for pretty much the remainder of the season. An LB too if Howe is certain Hall isn't ready.

 

I am still not convinced by an out right CDM, we didn't need one last season and we were doing fine without one until the injuries piled up. I'd prefer a natural 10, someone that allows us to go 4231 at times and not square peg round holes when we're chasing a game.

A 10 wouldn’t fit Howes system unless he could bust a lung and play 8 as well.

 

DM, LB and new winger for me. In that order. 
 

my still on the fence with Dubravka. He has had no protection since he came in. 

[wykikitoon 16947]

I wonder if this will be Wilson's last season with us. He's not getting any younger and he struggles to stay fit. 

 

Wor lass will be devvod. My nephew got him in his stickers at Christmas and brought her it for her on boxing day 😂 

[Holden McGroin 5014]

I think he’d be great to chuck on for a goal but starting every game might be a push for him. I’d still keep him next season. Pretty sure he signed an extension recently as well, didn’t he?

[Dazzler 5720]

3 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

A 10 wouldn’t fit Howes system unless he could bust a lung and play 8 as well.

 

DM, LB and new winger for me. In that order. 
 

my still on the fence with Dubravka. He has had no protection since he came in. 

A 10 could comfortably fit in the sense that it would allow Howe to tweak the system to suit certain opponents - I.e. low block teams we still struggle to break down. Howe's system is currently and historically based on who he's had available. E.g. I think Tonali was brought in so that we could have two great passers in midfield, and become more possession focused. His suspension fucked that so we've had to revert to type, which I think opponents have sussed now IMO.

 

A number 10 worked last season and got us a win at Brentford (maybe a few others he tried it in too with a tactical tweak) after playing shit first half. Howe played Isak in the hole and we turned them over second half. I think we don't have that luxury this season due to the injuries so a natural 10 would give us that option.

[PaddockLad 14816]

31 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

Dubravka hasn't been good for us since his initial loan spell IMO. I think people remember the first six months when they talk about remembering how "good" he is/was.

 

He was a half decent shot stopper, but his rashness when rushing out has cost us shit loads of goals down the years. I personally always thought Darlow was a better goalie, although still not good enough for where we wanted to be post takeover.

 

A goalie has to come in Jan, with Pope out for pretty much the remainder of the season. An LB too if Howe is certain Hall isn't ready.

 

I am still not convinced by an out right CDM, we didn't need one last season and we were doing fine without one until the injuries piled up. I'd prefer a natural 10, someone that allows us to go 4231 at times and not square peg round holes when we're chasing a game.

Ok… what does 4231 give us that 433 doesn’t in your opinion and which one would you mostly use away from home? 🤔

[The Fish 9103]

49 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

I am still not convinced by an out right CDM, we didn't need one last season and we were doing fine without one until the injuries piled up. I'd prefer a natural 10, someone that allows us to go 4231 at times and not square peg round holes when we're chasing a game.

 

That's the problem though, the minute we lost people to injuries and/or opponents sussed us out the need for a true DM became apparent. With a proper DM we can play 2 attacking fullbacks, two CMs (from a variety of options), and either a 10 and 2 forwards, 2 widemen and 1 forward, or whatever. 

 

Play a 6 and you could have two centre mids ahead of him who push into the wide areas like Joelinton and Willock, with the fullbacks driving more centrally, a number 10 in the hole and two strikers up top.

You could play two passers like Bruno and Tonali, and wide players like Gordon and Almiron, with Isak in the middle?

You could play a more counter attack style with combative midfielders ahead of the 6, and pace from Barnes, Willock and Isak on the break.

 

With a number 10 you're not solving for what is, in my mind at least, our biggest issue; the demands of a high pressing game on a small squad..

[Dr Gloom 20025]

I don’t think Howe wants to play with a number 10. He had the opportunity to sign a very good one in the summer in Madison but he seems to prefer to have the extra body in midfield. The only time he’s changed to that shape is when we’re chasing a game. I don’t think we’ve started a game with that system once since he came in. Isak, Anderson and Miggy can all play that role just behind the striker. Possibly Joelinton too. I would have loved us to have tried for Madison, or Paqueta but I don’t think we’re going to see it happen under Howe.

 

[Dr Gloom 20025]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

Getting another CF or a GK, while they'd serve us well would be short term measures, unless we find someone really surprising who is affordable, available and good enough to provide proper competition to Pope or Isak. I can't see either happening.

 

A number 6 and a RW are both longer standing issues in the squad who we can actually upgrade long term with a more likely january deal. 

It depends who is available in January, of course.  
 

I would also like to see RW upgraded at some point but DM and CF are the two main areas of weakness for me in terms of squad depth. We don’t have a single specialist DM. Bruno can do a good job there but I think we’d all like to see him pushed further forwards. Isak and Wilson are both great on their day but too injury prone. It was always a gamble going into the season with just two proper CFs  and I don’t trust them to get through the second half without breaking down again at the same time. I think Gordon has proved he isn’t good enough as cover in that position in the few cameos he’s had there this season.
 

This probably isn’t the window to upgrade Isak but we could get someone like Ekitike - or similar. A young player with potential who won’t expect to walk into the side but could offer better rotation options than we have currently. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 20025]

36 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Ok… what does 4231 give us that 433 doesn’t in your opinion and which one would you mostly use away from home? 🤔

4-3-3 gives more solidity with the extra man in midfield. But the lone striker can sometimes appear isolated if the gap between the midfield and the front three is too large.

 

I think in time if we move to a more possession-based style and away from high intensity pressing then we could switch to 4-2-3-1 but I dunno if we have the personnel to play the “double pivot”, as the kids call it. You  need two midfielders capable of receiving the ball from centre backs in tight areas in that system as they’re potentially going to be outnumbered by an opposing midfield three pressing them. There’s only Bruno of our current lot who looks qualified to do that, which might explain why Howe has been reluctant to use it.

[RobinRobin 9384]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

4-3-3 gives more solidity with the extra man in midfield. But the lone striker can sometimes appear isolated if the gap between the midfield and the front three is too large.

 

I think in time if we move to a more possession-based style and away from high intensity pressing then we could switch to 4-2-3-1 but I dunno if we have the personnel to play the “double pivot”, as the kids call it. You  need two midfielders capable of receiving the ball from centre backs in tight areas in that system as they’re potentially going to be outnumbered by an opposing midfield three pressing them. There’s only Bruno of our current lot who looks qualified to do that, which might explain why Howe has been reluctant to use it.

Or Tonali, which was probably the plan or at least plan B. 

[Dr Gloom 20025]

We’ve apparently been linked with Solanke. Chris Wood the second? 

[LongTimeAdmirer 938]

All this talk of a new RW? We dont neeeeeeed that, we already have the answer.

 

 

 

 

Come step foot in the Loan thread once in a while

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus CHRIST look at that 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr Gloom 20025]

8 minutes ago, LongTimeAdmirer said:

All this talk of a new RW? We dont neeeeeeed that, we already have the answer.

 

 

 

 

Come step foot in the Loan thread once in a while

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus CHRIST look at that 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Impressive. Bit of a farmers league he’s playing in though. Can we recall him in Jan?

[strawb 3711]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

Impressive. Bit of a farmers league he’s playing in though. Can we recall him in Jan?

No. Confirmed by Howe in a recent press conference

[PaddockLad 14816]

25 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

4-3-3 gives more solidity with the extra man in midfield. But the lone striker can sometimes appear isolated if the gap between the midfield and the front three is too large.

 

I think in time if we move to a more possession-based style and away from high intensity pressing then we could switch to 4-2-3-1 but I dunno if we have the personnel to play the “double pivot”, as the kids call it. You  need two midfielders capable of receiving the ball from centre backs in tight areas in that system as they’re potentially going to be outnumbered by an opposing midfield three pressing them. There’s only Bruno of our current lot who looks qualified to do that, which might explain why Howe has been reluctant to use it.

Hmmm…thing is to me two holding midfielders was basically killed off by Busquets and Kante, it’s the best part of 20 years out of date at the top level.  I think a fit & firing Phillips is a good signing but if he takes 4-6 weeks to get up to speed then as a loan it’s pretty pointless….

Edited December 28, 2023 by PaddockLad

[The Fish 9103]

3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Hmmm…thing is to me two holding midfielders was basically killed off by Busquets and Kante, it’s the best part of 20 years out of date at the top level.  I think a fit & firing Phillips is a good signing but if he takes 4-6 weeks to get up to speed then as loan it’s pretty pointless….

It's not so much two holding midfielders, but two players who can defend and break the initial press with either passing technique, or physicality. Bruno is that player, but to do the ol' double pivot properly, you'd need another like him. 

[PaddockLad 14816]

17 minutes ago, LongTimeAdmirer said:

All this talk of a new RW? We dont neeeeeeed that, we already have the answer.

 

 

 

 

Come step foot in the Loan thread once in a while

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus CHRIST look at that 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🤔

 

[LongTimeAdmirer 938]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

Impressive. Bit of a farmers league he’s playing in though.

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

Can we recall him in Jan?

 

No

 

 

[Howmanheyman 27367]

13 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Can we recall him in Jan?

 

We won't forget him that soon.

[Dazzler 5720]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

Ok… what does 4231 give us that 433 doesn’t in your opinion and which one would you mostly use away from home? 🤔

Well since 433 is working so well for us away from home this season I'd probably just stick with that going forward with 4231 at home

 

52 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

That's the problem though, the minute we lost people to injuries and/or opponents sussed us out the need for a true DM became apparent. With a proper DM we can play 2 attacking fullbacks, two CMs (from a variety of options), and either a 10 and 2 forwards, 2 widemen and 1 forward, or whatever. 

 

Play a 6 and you could have two centre mids ahead of him who push into the wide areas like Joelinton and Willock, with the fullbacks driving more centrally, a number 10 in the hole and two strikers up top.

You could play two passers like Bruno and Tonali, and wide players like Gordon and Almiron, with Isak in the middle?

You could play a more counter attack style with combative midfielders ahead of the 6, and pace from Barnes, Willock and Isak on the break.

 

With a number 10 you're not solving for what is, in my mind at least, our biggest issue; the demands of a high pressing game on a small squad..

To play with attacking full backs then we'd also need an attacking left back in Jan otherwise we're stuck with Burn who's great defensively but offers nothing in attack, Targett who is a perma-crock it seems, or Tino who's Trippiers cover/rotation option.

[Dr Gloom 20025]

8 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said:

 

We won't forget him that soon.

[The Fish 9103]

1 minute ago, Dazzler said:

Well since 433 is working so well for us away from home this season I'd probably just stick with that going forward with 4231 at home

 

To play with attacking full backs then we'd also need an attacking left back in Jan otherwise we're stuck with Burn who's great defensively but offers nothing in attack, Targett who is a perma-crock it seems, or Tino who's Trippiers cover/rotation option.

Latter option works when Trippier returns to form and fitness. 

 

Signing a DM would protect Trippier (and Tino), so if we could get Phillips or whomever they'd have more time to recover and be under less pressure during games. 

[PaddockLad 14816]

15 minutes ago, The Fish said:

It's not so much two holding midfielders, but two players who can defend and break the initial press with either passing technique, or physicality. Bruno is that player, but to do the ol' double pivot properly, you'd need another like him. 

Will the two in this this system sit in front of the back four by any chance Dave?…it seems that this wouldn’t necessarily release Bruno further forward after all, after the talking incessantly about that very thing on here for about a year now  

 

Maybe we do need to be tactically more flexible. But I think what we’re talking about here is a reaction to Tuesdays debacle. The main reason for our malaise is physical rather than tactical. Babies and bathwater are springing to mind here…

[RobinRobin 9384]

31 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Hmmm…thing is to me two holding midfielders was basically killed off by Busquets and Kante, it’s the best part of 20 years out of date at the top level.  I think a fit & firing Phillips is a good signing but if he takes 4-6 weeks to get up to speed then as a loan it’s pretty pointless….

Especially at the reported 7.5m loan fee. 

[Dr Gloom 20025]

7 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Will the two in this this system sit in front of the back four by any chance Dave?…it seems that this wouldn’t necessarily release Bruno further forward after all, after the talking incessantly about that very thing on here for about a year now  

 

Maybe we do need to be tactically more flexible. But I think what we’re talking about here is a reaction to Tuesdays debacle. The main reason for our malaise is physical rather than tactical. Babies and bathwater are springing to mind here…

Depends on the system but Bruno does have the flexibility to either play as a pair of 6s in a “double pivot” or as one of the number 8s in a three man midfield. 
 

Jesus titty wept - did i just post that?