Allan Saint-Maximin

[Dr Gloom 19844]

I’d keep him but buy in better players so he gets it out of his head that he’s the star man. He might raise his game in that case and put the effort in for the team needed to become a top player. It’s all down to him. He’s got the ability to be one of the best in the world if he’s prepared to learn the easy stuff: when to pass, when to dribble, getting up off his arse and tracking back instead of rolling around on the floor then waving his hands in the air etc 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Dr Gloom

[Craig 6308]

5 minutes ago, tinofbeans said:

unless we replace him with a player that does the hard yards and has a decent final ball/ goalscoring record/attacking threat, which is very difficult to see, i think we should stick with him. no one else in the premiership can do what he does when he is on form, and its down to him and the coaches to maximise his talent. the decision making and especially the final ball side of his brain seems to be quite a way behind the dribbling side.... 

 

I'll put this one out there, even though I think the rumours that went round last week were complete bollocks, if we were able to sneak Coutinho from under the noses of Villa, that'd be an upgrade from ASM for me. 

[wykikitoon 16749]

4 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

I'll put this one out there, even though I think the rumours that went round last week were complete bollocks, if we were able to sneak Coutinho from under the noses of Villa, that'd be an upgrade from ASM for me. 

A big upgrade IMO.

[The Fish 9018]

2 hours ago, Craig said:

 

NUFC fans have a deep-rooted love affair with flair players - particularly on the wings. The problem is they tend to play individually rather than as part of a team. During the years I've supported them you can still Mirandinha, Ginola. Robert, Ben Arfa & ASM in there. Great entertainment, but for all that entertainment we've still not be delivered quantifiable success.

I don't think Ginola, Robert, Ben Arfa and Mirandinha are why we've seen the team fail to deliver success. Probably more to do with Boumsong, Bramble, Taylor, and their ilk...

[Craig 6308]

Just now, The Fish said:

I don't think Ginola, Robert, Ben Arfa and Mirandinha are why we've seen the team fail to deliver success. Probably more to do with Boumsong, Bramble, Taylor, and their ilk...

 

Well yes, that also but you know the point I'm making. They've all been highlight entertaining to watch from an individual perspective and delivered moments of brilliance.

[tinofbeans 86]

27 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

I'll put this one out there, even though I think the rumours that went round last week were complete bollocks, if we were able to sneak Coutinho from under the noses of Villa, that'd be an upgrade from ASM for me. 

i'd suggest that coutinho is a magician, who delivers the final pass, and can score. St max is currently capable of that but is capable of engineering the space for himself, and taking on more than one player (he's excellent at breaking lines). its that final ball and goal attempt, that he then doesn't always (indeed rarely) gets right. Coutinho is on stupid money. he would improve our team if we were built around him for sure. until we know next seasons first 11, and how we plan to play, i'm not sure how we go with this.  

[Howmanheyman 26993]

Mirandinha was loved from the off because he was a Brazilian international who'd just scored at Wembley v England not that long ago when he signed for us and the idea of having a Brazilian international striker playing not just in the England but actually playing in England* for us was fucking dizzy!  I think everyone just wanted him to be brilliant and despite the odd rocket shot and goal, (scoring at old Trafford and getting a winner at anfield), he was really in the wrong league and a bit ball greedy, but he was our ball greedy Brazilian international so he'd get serenaded regardless. (Sometimes 'we've got Mirandinha/not from Argentina' but more often than not just the simple 'olé, olé, olé, olé Mirandinha' song which only people who trudged through the eighties and actually went to the games seem to remember whereas those who didn't bring up the former chant only. 

 

*Bits were made of this at the time in the media and it wasn't ignored but it would've been a lot more of a big deal if he'd signed for Liverpool, Man U, Spurs etc so same as it ever was.

[Alex 30474]

He was definitely a bit ball greedy  

[NJS 3986]

He was poor generally but he'll always be a complete legend to me for getting one of the biggest bites in football history out of the kop when he scored the pen. 

 

1st of October 1988 - never forget - as someone else might say. 

[Craig 6308]

1 hour ago, Howmanheyman said:

Mirandinha was loved from the off because he was a Brazilian international who'd just scored at Wembley v England not that long ago when he signed for us and the idea of having a Brazilian international striker playing not just in the England but actually playing in England* for us was fucking dizzy!  I think everyone just wanted him to be brilliant and despite the odd rocket shot and goal, (scoring at old Trafford and getting a winner at anfield), he was really in the wrong league and a bit ball greedy, but he was our ball greedy Brazilian international so he'd get serenaded regardless. (Sometimes 'we've got Mirandinha/not from Argentina' but more often than not just the simple 'olé, olé, olé, olé Mirandinha' song which only people who trudged through the eighties and actually went to the games seem to remember whereas those who didn't bring up the former chant only. 

 

*Bits were made of this at the time in the media and it wasn't ignored but it would've been a lot more of a big deal if he'd signed for Liverpool, Man U, Spurs etc so same as it ever was.

 

He's remembered as you say for the goals against Liverpool & Man United - probably because they seem to get the most airtime via YouTube. The goals that stick in my mind however both happened at SJP at the Gallowgate end and were in consecutive games:

 

Blackpool - Littlewoods Cup - sheer outright pace and a shot that almost took Barry Siddall's head off as well as the net. (Facebook)

Everton - League - bullet header that I can only recall being equalled/bettered by Asprilla v Barcelona in the CL. (scroll to about 1.10)

 

[Howmanheyman 26993]

6 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

He's remembered as you say for the goals against Liverpool & Man United - probably because they seem to get the most airtime via YouTube. The goals that stick in my mind however both happened at SJP at the Gallowgate end and were in consecutive games:

 

Blackpool - Littlewoods Cup - sheer outright pace and a shot that almost took Barry Siddall's head off as well as the net. (Facebook)

Everton - League - bullet header that I can only recall being equalled/bettered by Asprilla v Barcelona in the CL. (scroll to about 1.10)

 

He looked a million miles offside v Blackpool which was a game I was at but didn't get to the Everton one. The little quip about fans who weren't at the games wasn't aimed at you by the way, Craig!  When I posted it I realised it might come across a bit like that but was more an in-joke at CT, (don't know if you were still in TT exile at the time of the 'trudging through the eighties' line?)   and others on twitter who talk shite who blatantly weren't there. 

[The Fish 9018]

2 hours ago, Craig said:

 

Well yes, that also but you know the point I'm making. They've all been highlight entertaining to watch from an individual perspective and delivered moments of brilliance.

The point is, you hate fun.

[Craig 6308]

50 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said:

He looked a million miles offside v Blackpool which was a game I was at but didn't get to the Everton one. The little quip about fans who weren't at the games wasn't aimed at you by the way, Craig!  When I posted it I realised it might come across a bit like that but was more an in-joke at CT, (don't know if you were still in TT exile at the time of the 'trudging through the eighties' line?)   and others on twitter who talk shite who blatantly weren't there. 

 

Actually that bit completely passed me by  

I was at both of these games actually. Stood (well perched on a crush barrier) in the paddocks in front of the Milburn as it was being built. That Blackpool game was nuts IIRC. Gazza was on fire that night.

[Craig 6308]

31 minutes ago, The Fish said:

The point is, you hate fun.

 

Not at all. It's fine so long as it's got an end product. 

[Howay 12462]

He suited us with where we were, he thrives in a disorganized side where he can provide the occasional spark, but in an organized side he will struggle unless he adapts. Imo that’s the harsh reality. 
 

I’d love to see him adapt and turn into a top player for us, but there’s been zero sign of it so far. If you look up the dribbling stats of PL players he’s top by a mile, basically double that of Bernardo Silva, is he genuinely more skillful on the ball than Silva? Or is it because he goes on a run whenever he touches the ball despite it often not being the best option? He’s no doubt been electric at times, and been a bright spark in dour sides, but in a team full of Bruno and Trippier type players he wouldn’t be helpful. The goal he scored against Burnley was the player I would love for him to be, beat a man passed to Fraser, brilliant run and got on the end of a Fraser cross for a goal, the issue with him is he very rarely makes that pass to Fraser. 
 

This isn’t to say I’m itching to see him gone, but if he was sold and replace by someone like Raphinha I wouldn’t be upset. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Howay

[Christmas Tree 3997]

1 hour ago, Howmanheyman said:

He looked a million miles offside v Blackpool which was a game I was at but didn't get to the Everton one. The little quip about fans who weren't at the games wasn't aimed at you by the way, Craig!  When I posted it I realised it might come across a bit like that but was more an in-joke at CT, (don't know if you were still in TT exile at the time of the 'trudging through the eighties' line?)   and others on twitter who talk shite who blatantly weren't there. 

Only thing I remember him for is the lunging karate kick into Dave beasants back as they were leaving the field and the two Brazilians stood in front of me and our lass smoking cigars and farting.

 

But that’s my memory for you  

[Craig 6308]

Agreed. I think a mark of his level is also virtued by who the press are linking him with. It's not Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City or even Spurs .... it's Wolves. 

 

[ohhh_yeah 2786]

 

 

[wykikitoon 16749]

On the TF podcast Franchi I think said Craig Hope had said ASM is a good player for a poor manager, but a poor player for a good manager

[wykikitoon 16749]

All ASM has to do is watch the City v Liverpool game.  Every single player works hard.  

[wykikitoon 16749]

I didn't see the whole game on Sunday.  But what I did see ASM did his usual of running blind and losing the ball.  When he came off he looked dejected.  Are we seeing a player play his last season for the club and he knows it?

[Andrew 4231]

2 hours ago, wykikitoon said:

I didn't see the whole game on Sunday.  But what I did see ASM did his usual of running blind and losing the ball.  When he came off he looked dejected.  Are we seeing a player play his last season for the club and he knows it?

I think that is definitely what you are seeing.

[OTF 6191]

3 hours ago, wykikitoon said:

I didn't see the whole game on Sunday.  But what I did see ASM did his usual of running blind and losing the ball.  When he came off he looked dejected.  Are we seeing a player play his last season for the club and he knows it?

 

He was not great but he did seem to be more often looking for a passing option, sometimes to his detriment. He went on a brilliant mazy run beating several defenders and then forced a pass to Almiron who had his back to him at the top of the box.

 

He also played a nice defense splitting through ball for Joelinton to run onto earlier in the game. There were signs there that he was trying to be more of a team player.

[Andrew 4231]

14 minutes ago, OTF said:

 

He was not great but he did seem to be more often looking for a passing option, sometimes to his detriment. He went on a brilliant mazy run beating several defenders and then forced a pass to Almiron who had his back to him at the top of the box.

 

He also played a nice defense splitting through ball for Joelinton to run onto earlier in the game. There were signs there that he was trying to be more of a team player.

That pass was really good, if there had been a finish to it we'd all be talking about it.

I really want to watch ASM next season,  injury free with a full preseason under Howe, with continued improvement in the players around him. 

Saw several times against Leicester that when we bring wood back to defend set pieces, he's still an absolutely vital out ball, his running and twisting and turning gives so much time for us to get our shape back and take pressure off the defence./

 

 

[OTF 6191]

9 hours ago, Andrew said:

That pass was really good, if there had been a finish to it we'd all be talking about it.

I really want to watch ASM next season,  injury free with a full preseason under Howe, with continued improvement in the players around him. 

Saw several times against Leicester that when we bring wood back to defend set pieces, he's still an absolutely vital out ball, his running and twisting and turning gives so much time for us to get our shape back and take pressure off the defence./

 

 

 

That's when he actually instinctively looks for a pass as well, when he's far enough from goal for his lizard brain not to tell him to work for a shot. He set us off on a counter attack that we scored from the other week in this way.

 

He's taking longer than others to snap out of the Bruce inspired do as much or as little of whatever you want anti-coaching but there are signs that he's trying. Howe knows he's a one of a kind type of player and will want to harness that power. Let's be honest if he was the finished article with his ability on the ball he'd be in one of the top few clubs in the world. I feel like Howe will be the sort of manager who will be able to improve him, but there will always be an element of frustration or elation with a player like him, the trick is trying to swing it in the favour of the latter.

Edited April 20, 2022 by OTF