Howay 12459 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 A lot of stats like that are really helped by being subbed on in games we are comfortable in, and Howe finally trusts he can come on and not harm us. The reality is he’s a player who turns the ball over in horrendous positions, leaves his left back exposed, and doesn’t massively help our aggressive press when the ball is turned over (something which has been a huge factor for us). He’s a player people always seem to search for every positive stat or involvement to support him being some brilliant player, the reality is he’s not which will be underlined when we see who bids for him. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9231 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, LongTimeAdmirer said: Stop letting these heathens get your blood pressure up fam 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26351 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: but he's passed the eye test and the stat test He's passed neither for me. You admit the Man City game was an outlier so taking that out he has an assist every 342 minutes and 1 goal per 1027 minutes. It's not exactly impressive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19825 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, Howay said: A lot of stats like that are really helped by being subbed on in games we are comfortable in, and Howe finally trusts he can come on and not harm us. The reality is he’s a player who turns the ball over in horrendous positions, leaves his left back exposed, and doesn’t massively help our aggressive press when the ball is turned over (something which has been a huge factor for us). He’s a player people always seem to search for every positive stat or involvement to support him being some brilliant player, the reality is he’s not which will be underlined when we see who bids for him. i'm going to agree on the pressing side of the game. i don't think that will ever come naturally to him and he's ever going to be as effective at it as someone like miggy, which is why he may ultimately be the player we cash in on. i do think he's tried to adapt his game though, with some success this season. defenders don't like him running at them and for that reason he would be a good option - particularly off the bench in europe next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Howay said: A lot of stats like that are really helped by being subbed on in games we are comfortable in, and Howe finally trusts he can come on and not harm us. The reality is he’s a player who turns the ball over in horrendous positions, leaves his left back exposed, and doesn’t massively help our aggressive press when the ball is turned over (something which has been a huge factor for us). He’s a player people always seem to search for every positive stat or involvement to support him being some brilliant player, the reality is he’s not which will be underlined when we see who bids for him. He was fucking dogshit against West Ham at home and someone on Twitter was arguing Howe was making him play as a DM. This was based on a stat of him having made some tackles / interceptions. He was clearly playing LW but as you say people seem to love making excuses for him. I don’t really get the fanboy / girl mentality tbh. It might be different if he was a club legend but he isn’t anywhere near that yet. I’m much more arsed about the team performance funnily enough. Also, oddly, he seems to play better from the off and struggles as an impact sub. Whereas you’d think he would be effective in that role. Edited June 6, 2023 by Alex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12459 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: i'm going to agree on the pressing side of the game. i don't think that will ever come naturally to him and he's ever going to be as effective at it as someone like miggy, which is why he may ultimately be the player we cash in on. i do think he's tried to adapt his game though, with some success this season. defenders don't like him running at them and for that reason he would be a good option - particularly off the bench in europe next season. I agree he has shown some adaptation to his game this season, the issue is I just think his natural game is basically the opposite of what Howe wants so it’s always going to be an uphill battle. Those instincts are hard to overcome, I think it was one of the last games this season where twice he received the ball over the top and should have been gone with an easy one on one but instead he slowed and tried to check his man and beat him rather than just sprinting with the ball while he was already clear. His shooting is also pretty poor, so it’s a lot of things to improve when we could just sell him and buy better. I get why people are so attached to him and want him to work (although not to the extent some do - not including you in that btw Gloom), but it’s a good time to move on for both him and the club. Edited June 6, 2023 by Howay 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 15 minutes ago, LongTimeAdmirer said: Stop letting these heathens get your blood pressure up fam He’s not going to Arsenal, Sheila 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19825 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, ewerk said: He's passed neither for me. You admit the Man City game was an outlier so taking that out he has an assist every 342 minutes and 1 goal per 1027 minutes. It's not exactly impressive. i can see how he has listened to howe and has changed his game to try to fit into his system, yeah and i think six goal contributions for the number of minutes he's played is good. he still got plenty of flaws. he gives the ball away loads, doesn't really have a defensive brain., despite improved effort in that department and just isn't a natural eddie howe player. i'd keep him for another season, but i understand why he might be the one to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19825 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, Howay said: I agree he has shown some adaptation to his game this season, the issue is I just think his natural game is basically the opposite of what Howe wants so it’s always going to be an uphill battle. Those instincts are hard to overcome, I think it was one of the last games this season where twice he received the ball over the top and should have been gone with an easy one on one but instead he slowed and tried to check his man and beat him rather than just sprinting with the ball while he was already clear. His shooting is also pretty poor, so it’s a lot of things to improve when we could just sell him and buy better. I get why people are so attached to him and want him to work, but it’s a good time to move on for both him and the club. i think we more or less agree but i'll be a little disappointed if he does go. always a question of what could have been for a player with such natural talent on the ball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26351 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 His value only falls if we keep him for another season. He's worth more as a maverick under Steve Bruce than a fish out of water under Eddie Howe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeAdmirer 925 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 That's enough negativity in the Lords thread. Kindly LEAVE this area and join the transfer thread to discuss our new signing from Port Vale while the iceman and I enjoy the Lords work. Just beautiful, one of a kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12767 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 FWIW, I think Howe does like him to some degree considering he did start the cup final which is about as big as it gets for a player like him. Granted, Willock was unfit but he was given a clear attacking responsibility in that game and the good run that followed. I’d wager the issue is his injury record and the fact that, at the end of this contract, he’s going to be 28 and those injuries could have easily piled up. If you want to recoup some money and put it into other areas, especially the midfield as the players we want in that area won’t be cheap IMO, it makes sense to sell him. Especially if you’re confident in Gordon, Anderson and Joelinton to rotate in that role going forward. And his time missed is even more glaring now that we clearly have proper fitness coaches and physios and our players tend not to miss too many games and even the likes of Wilson will be excused because he bangs them in when he is fit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said: yes, i understand that. and i'm still not sure what we're arguing about i'm going to disagree about his performances though. the man city game was an outlier because he was unplayable all game. but he's passed the eye test and the stat test, for me, in most of his other appearances. his xg is on the money and his assists per 90 and shot creating actions are in the 96th and 91st percentile in Europe's top leagues It's obvious why you two are arguing. There's no football to talk about. ASM's performance metrics are excellent, but it's a smaller sample size because he's not played that much, 17 of his 31 appearances have been from the bench, and 40% of his assists came in the Man City game at the beginning of the season. We've scored 74% of our goals without him starting, 82% of our clean sheets, 79% of our wins, 75% of our points, 69% of our xG. I'm not saying that he's to blame or owt, simply that we haven't really missed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19825 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 The other thing is that he’s just too wee (like Prince was) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6307 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 One thing I'm (hopefully) looking forward to next season is 'TheOther14' bollocks will be giving us a wide berth. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19825 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 at least we might be replacing the player with the best xA with the second best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19825 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 23 minutes ago, Craig said: One thing I'm (hopefully) looking forward to next season is 'TheOther14' bollocks will be giving us a wide berth. and adding spurs to their ranks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: at least we might be replacing the player with the best xA with the second best And if ASM moves abroad or doesn't reproduce the output, we'll have the 1st and 2nd best. By the by, Iheanacho being 4th shows that that table isn't a great representation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19825 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 14 minutes ago, The Fish said: And if ASM moves abroad or doesn't reproduce the output, we'll have the 1st and 2nd best. By the by, Iheanacho being 4th shows that that table isn't a great representation. i thought you were our resident statto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I like ASM as a player, he's fun to watch. If he's not right for the team then fair enough, I'll support whatever decision the club makes and will assume it was the right one. Reminds me a bit of Ben Arfa in both positives and negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3472 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I agree this is a good time for him to move on, I'll be a bit sad as he's had his moments here and carried us for a while under Bruce, but that's exactly why he should leave now. I don't see him making the step up to the next level that Howe and the club will inevitably be aiming for now, he will just get shown up. Let him move abroad and be fondly remembered as an entertaining player. 1 hour ago, Rayvin said: Reminds me a bit of Ben Arfa in both positives and negatives. I get what you mean althought Ben Arfa was on an altogether different level when he was at his best. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polarboy 2124 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/allan-saint-maximin-exit-newcastle-sellers-man-city-2389470 Mark Douglas basically saying that if we don't get what we want in terms of transfer fee he'll likely stay, and given that a few teams have been put off by the 40m valuation the odds are still in favour of him staying. Us qualifying for the Champions League has made it more likely he'll stay given we'll need bodies, and we don't have to sell at what we think would be an undervaluation with the extra money from qualification. Gloom and Admirer might be able to cancel the petition that was being sent to Westminster 😂👍 Edited June 6, 2023 by Polarboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeAdmirer 925 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Polarboy said: Gloom and Admirer might be able to cancel the petition that was being sent to Westminster 😂👍 maxi leaving was never a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38768 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, LongTimeAdmirer said: maxi leaving was never a thing Hope this helps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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