General Random Conversation..

[Rayvin 4964]

Thanks for that, it is interesting. You're likely right about corruption, but I think the main thing it suffers from is severe incompetence. Unqualified people rise to the top because they promote internally and don't always have the talent to do so. They make a big song and dance about needing to pay salaries that are competitive with the private sector but then don't hire enough ex-private sector employees - so you end up with a load of jobsworths running the council and desperately clinging on.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Thanks for that, it is interesting. You're likely right about corruption, but I think the main thing it suffers from is severe incompetence. Unqualified people rise to the top because they promote internally and don't always have the talent to do so. They make a big song and dance about needing to pay salaries that are competitive with the private sector but then don't hire enough ex-private sector employees - so you end up with a load of jobsworths running the council and desperately clinging on.

 

 

You're correct on that score, my lass deals with the council on a daily basis and is constantly encountering people that have no clue what they are actually doing. The biggest problems she has faced have involved Nick Forbes, which says a lot really.

[Rayvin 4964]

Aye sounds right. My dad used to work in there as a senior transport planner and gets so angry about how much the whole organisation is held back by internal politics and general incompetence. It's a shame but I can't think of any way of addrressing it. It's a systemic failure and they all close ranks to protect each other.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Elected career politicians are where the failings begin, but I can't see the system changing anytime soon.

[Rayvin 4964]

Elected career politicians are where the failings begin, but I can't see the system changing anytime soon.

 

Frankly, that's the problem with our entire democratic structure.

[Renton 17818]

Thanks for that, it is interesting. You're likely right about corruption, but I think the main thing it suffers from is severe incompetence. Unqualified people rise to the top because they promote internally and don't always have the talent to do so. They make a big song and dance about needing to pay salaries that are competitive with the private sector but then don't hire enough ex-private sector employees - so you end up with a load of jobsworths running the council and desperately clinging on.

That's quite a non sequitur. Any evidence that the public sector is more incompetent than the private?

[Renton 17818]

Elected career politicians are where the failings begin, but I can't see the system changing anytime soon.

What failings and what politicians are you referring to? The Bridgets of this world or local councillors?

 

I know, perhaps it's best if we elect completely unqualified people into the most powerful public office in the world instead.

[NJS 3982]

Aye sounds right. My dad used to work in there as a senior transport planner and gets so angry about how much the whole organisation is held back by internal politics and general incompetence. It's a shame but I can't think of any way of addrressing it. It's a systemic failure and they all close ranks to protect each other.

You think the private sector is better?

 

I'm surrounded by back-stabbing incompetent cunts.

[Rayvin 4964]

That's quite a non sequitur. Any evidence that the public sector is more incompetent than the private?

 

I'm referring to Newcastle City Council only here, not that I'd be surprised to see it happen elsewhere. And it's based on nothing more than my dad's 30 years working there. The Tories made this problem infinitely worse with all the cuts; experienced people were asked to take on unreasonable amounts of work, left (quite often in large numbers), and were replaced by people beneath them who were patently unqualified to do the jobs. My dad had this issue - his department and another department were being merged - he was heading up his own department and was told he'd have to apply for the job to run both. The guy heading up the other department was told the same thing.

 

The idea was that this would save management costs. The problem was, it was a fucking stupid idea. They were asking for a lot more work to be done and were driven only by the need to cut costs. So the fallout was that both my dad and this other guy simply quit. They had to promote someone from further down, ended up having to pay them more as well, as this guy was reluctant to take it on - and then discovered that it did need two people. So had to hire another person anyway, on a matching inflated salary.

 

Also, they now pay my dad to consult for them at a rate higher than they would have had to if he worked there, because the two people they hired can't do the job.

 

That would not happen in my company. Not sure about anywhere else in the private sector but it's fucking hard to imagine.

[Rayvin 4964]

You think the private sector is better?

 

I'm surrounded by back-stabbing incompetent cunts.

 

I think the private sector is full of incompetence but that these people only rise so high. I think it's called the Peter principle. People only rise until they get found out as incompetent, and then don't go further. The need to maximise shareholder wealth ensures this to a greater degree than public sector concerns, I would guess.

 

But look, I was just talking about NCC. I've heard similar things from colleagues working in hospitals as well, and think to myself that some manner of competent management would save a great deal of money. The problem often sounds like you have people with vested interests in resisting such change in positions of power. In the private sector, new management can come in and ride roughshod over those people. In public sector, I'd expect they can't.

 

Peter Principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Edited February 7, 2017 by Rayvin

[Gemmill 34586]

GREETINGGGS!

[Rayvin 4964]

Quiet, you.

[Tooj 17]

 

 

I think the private sector is full of incompetence but that these people only rise so high. I think it's called the Peter principle. People only rise until they get found out as incompetent, and then don't go further.

That's definitely not the case from my experience like.

[Rayvin 4964]

That's definitely not the case from my experience like.

 

I'm really not trying to make a point about the virtues of private vs public, I was just lamenting NCC's incompetence.

 

But fwiw, they hire a lot of private consultants to make up the shortfall in competence. EDIT - to be fair, private companies often do this too. As I say, the public v private argument wasn't the point.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 19835]

I've worked for several incompetent managers over the years. The weird thing about my business is people are promoted to mansgement positions on the strength of their journalism, then receive little to no management training. Being a good journalist doesn't mean that person will also be good at managing a budget, allocating resources, dealing with admin etc etc - often quite the opposite.

[Dr Gloom 19835]

Plus my place is full of great brains who are more comfortable with their books than they are dealing with other human beings.

[Rayvin 4964]

I've worked for several incompetent managers over the years. The weird thing about my business is people are promoted to mansgement positions on the strength of their journalism, then receive little to no management training. Being a good journalist doesn't mean that person will also be good at managing a budget, allocating resources, dealing with admin etc etc - often quite the opposite.

 

I think that's quite a common problem actually. Being good technically isn't the same as being a good manager. Where things become difficult is that career progression becomes difficult once you've hit 'senior whatever' in your technical field. Then you either try your hand at management or... I dunno, stay where you are.

[Meenzer 14059]

Then you either try your hand at management or... I dunno, stay where you are.

 

Pretty much. *sits*

[Billy Whitehurst 790]

You think the private sector is better?

 

I'm surrounded by back-stabbing incompetent cunts.

Aye, that's what I was thinking when I was reading that.

[PaddockLad 14616]

Hmmmm.....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/feb/07/brave-new-world-newcastle-dream-for-vertical-city?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Park Life 70]

Love a bit of Dystopia.

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Park Life

[Kid Dynamite 5936]

Hmmmm.....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/feb/07/brave-new-world-newcastle-dream-for-vertical-city?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Lots of long words and 10pictures of the same flyover

[Rayvin 4964]

It's a nice idea, a vertical city. If it was done without 60s monolithic crap.

[The Fish 9006]

It's a nice idea, a vertical city. If it was done without 60s monolithic crap.

Did you watch the final episode of Planet Earth II where the focus was on cities and an effort in one to have construction be sympathetic to flora and fauna?

 

Edit: Singapore

Edited February 8, 2017 by The Fish

[Rayvin 4964]

Did you watch the final episode of Planet Earth II where the focus was on cities and an effort in one to have construction be sympathetic to flora and fauna?

 

Edit: Singapore

 

I haven't actually, I'm about half-way through that series at the moment. I'll look forward to it though. I think I heard about this anyway though in the papers at one point. Was the idea that the sides of buildings will be entirely covered in plants or something to that effect?