Rayvin 4964 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yep, seems like a fair assessment. I'd just add though that they've had Pienaar and Osman out injured for a while, and they're supposed to be the guys who link defence with attack - could be missing their presence (although you'd think Barkley, with all the hype, should be capable). Â Does Martinez play to Lukaku's strengths though? He's one of those players who wants to be running onto the ball isn't he? That's more of a hallmark of counterattacking sides, and Martinez's possession game won't fit that particularly. He'll be being expected to work himself into space in the box instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Does Martinez play to Lukaku's strengths though? He's one of those players who wants to be running onto the ball isn't he? That's more of a hallmark of counterattacking sides, and Martinez's possession game won't fit that particularly. He'll be being expected to work himself into space in the box instead.Cant see him ever being a success at a big club if that's the case then. All the best teams are going to be playing a lot of possession football rather than counter attacking. I think he's good striker but he's still very rough around the edges. I'm not sure whether he's just still a young player learning or if he'll never really be able sharpen up the finer points of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Real Madrid counter attack don't they? As do Chelsea when playing anyone half decent. Or they did at least... Â Same for Dortmund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) The big difference is that Chelsea and Real Madrid use counter attacking football as an option, rather than their default game after game. Counter attacking football places the control of the game in the opposition's hands, meaning that they dictate the overall pace of the game. Chelsea and Real are able to play possession football when it is required. Dortmund are having an identity crisis because of this exact reason (and the fact that their defence has been woeful). They don't know what style of football to play, as counter attacking football can be safeguarded against quite easily - i.e don't play with a high line, have some pace in your defence and have at least one holding midfielder sat in front of the back four at all times. Â Â It's interesting to see what is going on with Everton and Martinez, because in a way I think he is a very progressive coach. But in other ways I think he is incredibly naive if he thinks that one formula can succeed no matter who the opposition are. That's why Chelsea are so good imo. They don't play to their own strengths, but the oppositions weaknesses, which fluctuate from game to game. Edited February 13, 2015 by ADP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The big difference is that Chelsea and Real Madrid use counter attacking football as an option, rather than their default game after game. Counter attacking football places the control of the game in the opposition's hands, meaning that they dictate the overall pace of the game. Chelsea and Real are able to play possession football when it is required. Dortmund are having an identity crisis because of this exact reason (and the fact that their defence has been woeful). They don't know what style of football to play, as counter attacking football can be safeguarded against quite easily - don't play with a high line and have at least one holding midfielder sat in front of the back four at all times. Â Â It's interesting to see what is going on with Everton and Martinez, because in a way I think he is a very progressive coach. But in other ways I think he is incredibly naive if he thinks that one formula can succeed no matter who the opposition are. That's why Chelsea are so good imo. They don't play to their own strengths, but the oppositions weaknesses, which fluctuate from game to game. Â Yeah I wouldn't argue with that, but teams the size of RM and Chelsea have three or four world class strikers. Wouldn't it make sense if one of those was a Lukaku - a player who could be brought out for the counterattacking games? I think my point is that it's hard to judge him when playing in a system that isn't well suited to him. Weirdly, I think he'd do better playing for us, given our systems. If he went to a team that played good counterattacking football, he'd probably get picked up by an elite team in order to allow them the option of employing a similar system. Â Or he could just be pants. Â On the wider point, I agree that they're an interesting case. The thing is though, they could still feasibly do very well in the Europa League this year, and a 12th place finish plus an EL trophy wouldn't be a bad result for them. Wouldn't that also give them CL quals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Â Yeah I wouldn't argue with that, but teams the size of RM and Chelsea have three or four world class strikers. Wouldn't it make sense if one of those was a Lukaku - a player who could be brought out for the counterattacking games? I think my point is that it's hard to judge him when playing in a system that isn't well suited to him. Weirdly, I think he'd do better playing for us, given our systems. If he went to a team that played good counterattacking football, he'd probably get picked up by an elite team in order to allow them the option of employing a similar system. Â Or he could just be pants. Â On the wider point, I agree that they're an interesting case. The thing is though, they could still feasibly do very well in the Europa League this year, and a 12th place finish plus an EL trophy wouldn't be a bad result for them. Wouldn't that also give them CL quals? Â Aye, perhaps. But the best players, the ones who are at the 'top' clubs that Lukaku is referring to, are the players who can adapt to several different systems - so that the coaches don't need to take them off or bring them on to alter the system, they will just adapt to it. Lukaku has the potential to be a great player, but he is raw and needs to work on his game intelligence imo. Â Aye would also give them CL qualification, which is why I think that we could see some clubs taking more seriously this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 If we took one of Everton's CD's and Lukaku we'd be looking at top 7 that's what's so frustrating under the current regime. Think Mou was referring to Luk not fighting for a place at Chelses which isn't unfair and does cast a tiny shadow over the player...But then as others have said Ramy can't even get a game and he's pretty much at his peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 If we took one of Everton's CD's and Lukaku we'd be looking at top 7 that's what's so frustrating under the current regime. Think Mou was referring to Luk not fighting for a place at Chelses which isn't unfair and does cast a tiny shadow over the player...But then as others have said Ramy can't even get a game and he's pretty much at his peak.  Very true. Although we wouldn't even need someone as expensive as Lukaku - Remy himself would have been £13m cheaper and more effective (had we signed him when QPR did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 If we took one of Everton's CD's and Lukaku we'd be looking at top 7 that's what's so frustrating under the current regime. Think Mou was referring to Luk not fighting for a place at Chelses which isn't unfair and does cast a tiny shadow over the player...But then as others have said Ramy can't even get a game and he's pretty much at his peak. Â Â I'm not sure, I'd need to see more from Carver. If he continues the current tactical trajectory, we'd need more than a good striker and a CB to make the top 7. Our problems extend way beyond individual areas. That's not me saying that we don't desperately need better players in those areas, especially CB. But Carver manages like a child on a sugar rush. I have little confidence that he would be successful even if he had better players at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'm going to tentatively suggest that Parky may have meant our chances under Pardew...? At least that's where I was in agreement with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ah reet, well in that case I third that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 707 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Sky Sports on the wind-up with an "interactive feature" about Carroll's seemingly endless injuries: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/15130/9713119/andy-carrolls-injuries-at-west-ham-interactive-guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Tim Sherwood new Villa boss  I hope they go down now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 10005 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26433 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Oops. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6434 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26907 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Â Watched the second half of their game last night. As Gary Birtles would say, 'dear me'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9006 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Tim Sherwood new Villa boss  I hope they go down now. Know idea what's he's done to deserve a shot at a club like Villa?  He's just a terrible manager with the right mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 6 months with somebody else's team and written off by some already. It's a cut-throat profession, but we're unlikely to ever unearth top managers in this country with that kind of attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKANDWHITEGEORDIE 0 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 You could say the same about Pardew. I have never read or heard one Manager or player ever criticise him for his Management capabilities yet our fans with good reason couldn't wait for him to leave. It is all down to levels of expectation. Our fans expect Ashley's next appointment will be a top name capable of managing the likes of Gouffran, Dummett, Willo, Riviere, Anita, Elliot, Tiote, Colo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38786 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 A relative who is a Villa fan posted this the day before Timmy was announced as their new gaffer. http://www.umaxit.com/index.php/columns/desperate-times-call-for-tim-sherwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14615 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Whilst walking along out local high street in Parkstone around midday yesterday I spied a "nicely tanned" grey haired gent of middle age, wearing, of all things in mid February, a pair of black sports shorts emerging from an exceedingly camp looking white mercedes SLK. He turned along the pavement and headed towards the door of the local branch of popular keys and cobblers franchaise Timpsons. As I drew level with our subject I could tell that something was amiss; the aforementioned premises had all the looks of a thriving business with lights on and displays out but the door was locked shut from the inside with no one visible inside to assist. I could tell from my close quarters vantage point this was causing, to say the very least,a fair amount of consternation for our boy, to the extent that I could clearly see him violently hammering both fists against the glass door of the establishment whilst uttering dark curses in an as yet unidentified yet guttural dialect. Imagine my surprise and delight when I took a last glance at this scene of wanton suburban degenration and realised the perpurtrator of this heinous assault was none other than ex scouse tashed-up euro king/failed bully boy manager of this parish Greame Souness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26433 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I hope you got his autograph or a selfie as the kids are doing nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 What is it with Bradford and fucking cup runs? It's actually a bit disconcerting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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